Down in the pipe pictured here is the "handle" of the stop & waste valve (as I recall being told that's the name of that type of valve down there) upon which the curb key should fit to turn the valve closed or open. When I try to turn the valve with the curb key it seems to turn both ways okay but is extremely tight, probably because it's old and very seldom has been "exercised". It's so tight I'm kind of afraid to try applying too much force for fear of breaking it. My inquiry at this time is in regard to whether I can determine if the valve is turned completely open by comparing the "handle" position down there with that of the grooves opposite eachother on the circular orange flange/plate pipe. If they're parallel would that mean the valve is open all the way or not necessarily? Also, if that is the case, to close the valve can I just turn the handle either way crosswise to those grooves? Or, or these valves strictly righty tighty to close and lefty loosey to close (or otherwise?). Any comments appreciated. Thanks.





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It is not a 'stop and waste' valve, it is a curb stop.

The grooves on the flange indicate nothing.

Assuming the handle on your curb key lines up with the slot at the bottom of the key, the slot being the part that actually engages the stop, the valve is open when the handle is parallel to the underground pipe and closed when the handle is perpendicular.

Always, clockwise close, counter clockwise open.



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if you can see the top of the valve, it has a rectangular top that the key fits onto. the direction of the top is the on/off indicator.
those valves usually need to be fully on so water doesn't drain out the opening on the side.
you are looking at a valve similar to this...

If it turns both ways it CANNOT be a stop and waste valve. If it were and the valve were turned the wrong way, the city water would either flow out the port all the time when it was on, or all the time when it was off, depending on which way it was turned.

It's apparent the "handle" (to which the curb key slot engages) is an extension connected to the to the actual valve located at least a foot or more below where my shovel handle is pointing at the vertical pipe in this photo. I can look down inside the pipe with my flashlight and see the top of this extension at that level where the curb key slot engages. The pencil I placed on the flange there is parallel with the position of the direction in which the top of that handle is currently turned. So if I wanted to turn the valve off, if I understand correctly, I need to turn that "handle", or extension as I've called it, clockwise 45 degrees if it is indeed the case that the valve is fully open at this time. Does that sound correct?





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90 degrees

yeah, 90 degrees. don't be alarmed if while you are turning the valve you hear and see water squirting out the side of it. this is normal. it is the water on the house side of the valve draining out the weep hole. be alarmed if the water continues to fill up the access pipe. you need to get the indicator handle in pretty much the 100% off position or water under pressure can can flow from the street side of the valve and come out the weep hole constantly. you just need to adjust the position of the handle a little more open or a little more closed until you get it right. most of those type valves have a knob of some sort to not allow you turn past full open or full closed. unfortunately, your does not..

Okay, got it, 90 degrees (and not 45 degrees like me the dummy first said). Thanks.
Yeah I did hear water flowing from it down there when I was turning it and wondered if that was either normal or something bad to worry about. So thanks for clearing that up for me too. Like I first mentioned, it is really really hard to turn the dang thing almost to to point where I feel like either it might break while I'm trying to turn it or even the curb key to start bending. Ridiculously tight. Probably not good that it's so tight like that and I'd need to dig it up and replace it to remedy that situation?

If it is a 'normal' installation, the only way you are going to change it is for the city to shut off the water mains in your are, or dig down to the main and turn off the "corporation stop" on the main. That is usually a water company valve and they change it. Some even get testy if YOU turn it off. You notice the plug for valve box has a pentagon nut. That is so you SHOULD NOT be able to remove it unless you have a utility wrench which you probably could not buy.



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hj, I am assuming this is a 'normal' installation, so I suppose if I want to try to undertake changing the valve myself I'll need to get in contact with the city about having them turn off the water main in the area. If there does happen to be a "corporation stop" as you mentioned, am I understanding you correctly that there would most likely have to be digging involved to access that?

Also, if I decided to just leave the valve as is (not change it out) and just figure it'll always be a tight struggle to turn it but just live with it that way, is that probably not a good idea because being that way increases the possibility it'll break on me sometime while trying to turn it, or maybe even crack/break the water line itself? Would it be a bad idea to just "leave well enough alone"? I have the need to open/close the valve at least twice a year, but that's about all.

Side note: Not that I'd necessarily mess with it myself, but in regard to the pentagon nut mentioned that would be on the corporation stop valve box plug: in my posted photo you can see a similar type pentagon nut cap/plug (there on that board) that threads into that flange on top of that pipe vertical pipe. The city water dept loaned me a utility wrench to get that off.

quote; e being that way increases the possibility it'll break on me sometime while trying to turn it, or maybe even crack/break the water line itself?


That is exactly why most water companies do NOT want the homeowner to access that valve instead of calling the water company. ANY TIME you see a "pentagon" nut, it is designed as a "tamper proof" feature.

So perhaps then my best course of action if I want to turn that valve off/on twice a year would be to simply call the water company and ask them come out to do it for me each/every time? If so, that would be fine with me.

They would probably like that and you would too if it broke on them, because it would be a VERY expensive repair if you had to pay for it, and here, it could even include a $10,000.00 fine for working on a utility's item, ahead of the meter.

Good to hear that, and I'm glad I inquired about all this here. Next time I need to turn the dang valve one way or the other I'll just call them. Thanks.

Edit: Although now that I think about it I'm fairly certain the valve isn't ahead of the meter, so that might change the scenario. But I suppose if I just ask them they can tell me with absolute certainty.



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I have NEVER seen one of those valves AFTER the meter. When they are used the meter is usually in the basement.

I'm still rather confused as to whether it is or is not a "stop and waste" valve. A few of the initial replies this thread seem to be contradictory in that regard. I do hear water coming out of it down there when I'm able to turn it.

It doesn't really matter. The sound of water running is probably the water rushing back into your system and bringing everything back up to pressure. I have never seen one with a waste valve here so I looked up Ford curb stops and they make one similar to the one posted above and they say

"STOP-AND-WASTE FEATURE
Stop-and-waste valves allow the downstream service line to drain when in the
closed position. This feature is typically used to avoid damage to the service
line caused by freezing. Valves available with this option are indicated with
an asterisk (*). For 3/4" and 1" valves, insert “C” and add “SW” to the catalog
number. Example: BC11-333SW-NL. (**) For 1-1/2" and 2" valves, add “SW” to
the catalog number. Example: B11-666SW-NL."

I also see that you are listed as being in Alaska, so it is entirely possible. Without digging up the valve to take a peek, nobody here can give you a definite answer. I would agree with Hj and not mess with it yourself honestly. Call the local utility company, most areas have crews that just turn water off and on, and it is always better to let the utility company break something, instead of a homeowner.

1. I have never seen a stop and waste valve used for that purpose.
2. IF it it is a stop and waster valve it WOULD have a limit sop and the handle so it could ONLY be rotated in the proper direction and ONLY as far as needed, namely a quarter turn.