I HOPE there is someone who can help me. Its a long story but the basics are: I had 40 feet of my lateral line replaced with ABS pipe about 6 weeks ago, due to root intrustion of 50 yo clay pipe.
Last week, I had back-up out of my side cleanout at the back of my house.
Plumber claims has nothing to do with his work. Refuses to camera. Hung up on me basically and said to get new plumber.
I called city. They said IF he did not lay new pipe at correct angle, it COULD be that the water is not going forward, but going backward.
PLUMBER ADAMANTLY say this is not possible.
He is a pretty mean guy.
I spend ALOT of money just trying to fix my house.
ANY help, input, advice totally welcome. I could give you a list of all the rude things he dis and said, but suffice to say, he is not a nice guy and I think he is trying to scare me away.

pay someone to send a camera down the new pipe.
if it is sloped wrong the old plumber must pay for the camera and correct the pipe slope. if it is sloped correctly, you owe the plumber an apology.

I appreciate your help and this is what I will do.
I am not sure why I own the plumber an apology though. I just asked a question. He denied it could possibly be related to his work. Was this an unreasonable question?
Thank you.

Where did he stop the 40' run ? Is there any clay pipe left ?

A new sewer should not back up, but is the "side cleanout" where the new pipe starts?

Yes, one section nearest house is still clay because a portion of it goes under house---said he could not remove that portion. Also, a section of clay pipe goes from property line under sidewalk to center of street to main line. He said if that fails, its city problem
I felt like he should have been able to remove clay pipe that is near/under house exterior wall because there is plenty of crawl space under house. Maybe I am wrong. And right over that piece is a large rubber tree. He told me AFTER job was done, I had to remove that tree in next couple of yrs or it will crush that one remaining length of clay.
Yet, now he is saying tree has to go ASAP.
You can see why I am having a bit of a sinking feeling about the whole thing.
Now I even wonder if I needed to replace the line in first place. On day 2, when I called to check on things, he said "I found pipe that was SO thin it was like a piece of foil...I'll show you to prove we did this just in nick of time"..I went over there after work and guess what,he accidently threw that piece out before he could show me.
All kinds of bad things happened.
He wanted to get paid on day three when I still had an open trench at 6 pm. He said it would be done by 9 pm. Either pay him now, or come back at 9 pm and pay him (its a rental I keep in tip top shape). He got VERY angry when I did not agree to pay before job done.

No, he went from the front edge of my house almost to sidewalk. He did not replace line under my house. So the side clean out is at the other end of the line essentially. Pls see email I just posted re still come clay pipe still actually at edge of front of house.

He went to look at the side clean out and told me it was due to poor functioning toilet.

Then,he then said lady basically you need to do a bunch of stuff, replace 3 toilets, new washing machiene discharge hose, complete plumbing inspection plus preventative maintenance (hydrojet all line, camera, record finding, recommend maintenance). Estimate - 3.2K (I just spend 5 K). He mentioned NONE of this befor.

Said "second opinion highly encouraged due to the volume of work" and estimate valid for 2 wks. Is he trying to push me away/make me give up?

Sorry if I sound negative. I hope I do not offend any honest plumbers out there.

Here is an example of what kind of guy I am dealing with. My very relieable 13 yr tenant reports he basically cussed out my 84 yr old neighbor, who was simply asking a couple of questions in the evening, since his work was very close to her property line. He told her to "go to bed old lady and get out of my face this is not your problem".
I am sorry but that is unforgivable. Period.

I am not saying his work is bad, just because he is so unpleasant, but you can see what I am dealing with.

He has thrown up so many "red flags" that I don't know where to start, or even what to recommend, because right now I don't know if I believe any thing he told you.

Having some pictures to show us would help us to help you. You may have a bad plumber or a good plumber with a lousy personality. You really won't know until you have another licensed plumber inspect the work that was done properly or not properly. Make sure you review all that is in writing.

Best Wishes

What are the red flags? Personality issues, or actual work issues. What kind of photos should I provide?
I am getting more and more upset. I trusted the man. You know what, even if he did the job right, I want to finally give him a piece of my mind, but what would that help?

One thing that confuses me though. If he DID do a lousy job, why would he in fact put in his ridiculous assessment/estimate...recommending for me to get a second opinion? Wouldn't he know a second opinion would put him at risk, you know what I am trying to say here? So he must be confident of his job to suggest to me a second opinion right?

Maybe I am making mountain outta a molehile.

I am a nurse. I know my job, but NOTHING about plumbing. I am at the mercy of people like him. If he did screw me, I hope Karma exists.


Thanks for your input, and listening to me vent a bit.

I just don't even know what next step is... I guess second opinion.



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red flags? Quote; replace 3 toilets, new washing machiene discharge hose, complete plumbing inspection plus preventative maintenance (hydrojet all line, camera, record finding, recommend maintenance). Estimate - 3.2K (I just spend 5 K). He mentioned NONE of this befor.

These are "make work items" and have very little to do with your sewer getting clogged shortly after it was replaced.

quote; Yet, now he is saying tree has to go ASAP.

The tree was already there and the clay sewer went under it. A competent contractor would have replaced that section by going around the tree. You do NOT replace a sewer by just doing the easy sections. And if he were competent, he would know that you CANNOT eliminate the problem by 'removing' the tree. The roots will continue to live and grow for 25 years as long as they have a source of water in the sewer line.



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Sounds like a Florida plumber...sorry couldn't resist.

If you called the city, and the city said if he didn't lay the pipe at correct angle it could back up...that's confusing, I assume this was permitted? Wouldn't the city have sent an inspector during the job execution to ensure it was laid at a proper slope?

Regardless, I think the emotional back and forth with the plumber is a waste of time. He is not likely to come fix whatever issue you have and eat that cost whether it is his fault or not.

I think your best bet is to cough up more money for now, and hire a qualified plumber to do some discovery. What exactly is causing the back up? Is the section of clay under the tree part of the problem? etc etc etc. Once you have that information, get a few bids.

If the work of that original plumber was substandard or contributed to the problem, then contact him in writing and provide your information, tell him you will hire someone else to correct his mess, and you will bill him what that would cost you.



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quote; and you will bill him what that would cost you.

And after many,many years, she can do like the family which got a 9 million dollar judgement against O.J.Simpson. Go on E-Bay and try to sell it to someone who thinks they can collect it.

He told me no permit was needed from city. . I will call city again and make sure no permit was needed.
Yes, I am working on getting another opinion.
I am also going to file a complaint with state licensing board...at least gathering the paperwork in case. I suppose they are not interested in his poor behavior or creating this follow-up fake estimate as a method of freaking me out are they, or is their some professional code of conduct he is violating?.
I found him on Yelp with good reviews. I feel like sharing my story now on Yelp, or telling him if he does not fix problem, I will. As professional plumbers do you feel this would be effective? Is it possible that if I allow him to "fix" things, he could actually damage things in retaliation?
Even if I do find out there was nothing wrong with workmanship he did, is the fact that he did not replace pipe under the rubber tree enough to conclude he did an inadequate job?
. He explained to me he could not fix this section as half of it runs under exterior of house into crawl-space. Is this BS?
I now realize too that I could not trust his camera now anyhow. First time I saw him, after another large plumbing company camerad it he said "you know, I have known plumbers who show customers camera DVD of others properties and try to make them believe it is their property". I would not put it past him to do the SAME thing.
This is a total nightmare for me. I appreciate all your help so much.
I despise the guy for his customer service alone...and will want to slam him big time if can document he scammed me.

Cici,

As a homeowner who has many nightmare situations dealing with contractors and subs, I can understand your frustration.

However, to be fair, a lot of this goes back to the agreement between you and this plumber. Was it a verbal agreement? Was a contract or proposal written up which included the scope of work?

If he said "I will replace your clay pipe from here to here" that is very different from "I will replace your clay pipe where *convenient*".

If he had agreed to replace your clay pipe including the section under the tree, and later on decided it's too much trouble, then it's his fault because he should have taken that into account when working up his estimates.

He told me, and put in writing he would replace my clay lateral line from the house to the edge of my property line. I did not ask for anymore specifics, because I did not know what I did not know.
I trusted him, and looking back, when I did ask questions, he basically dismissed them, stating the problem would fixed don't worry.
Yes, I recognize I am perhaps a dummy here. But I did not say....are you only going to fix the clay pipe that you can easily get to? I simply trusted he would 100% fix the problem. This is what anyone would expect right?
oh I am sick about this

HE did not require a permit

he may, or may not, have been required to be a licensed plumber as well as a licensed business/contractor

YOU, as the owner/builder, DID require a permit

'generally' the contractor obtains the permit ON BEHALF of the owner/builder

sorry for the hard cold cruel facts

NO, repeat NO, contractor is your friend

TRUST - BUT VERIFY

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

OK. This is very valuable to know. I will call city re permit. Oh dear.

Good luck.

You can also check your city's building department web site and usually they have a section that tells you what type of work requires a permit and what doesn't. Some go by the nature of work and improvement, some go by amount of contract if exceed a certain $ amount. Usually excavating, replacing a pipe, backfilling would require a permit.

In the mean time, see if you have any pictures of his work and post them here for the experts to comment on.

Did this guy put a clean out at the point of connection with the city line? It could be his work is fine.I think it should be scoped to see. If it is broken from the cub out is it is the cities prob...good luck...

Update: I did check with city and you are correct. A permit was required. I specifically asked him and he said no.I would have been happy to paid for permit, as this would have meant city would have come out and inspected his work. This am I had a complete camera of line. Its full of roots under the tree as well as immediately beyond where he laid his last length of pipe to the street. He did not tell me any of this. He just initially said some day the tree should come out, as it may crush the clay pipe under it. I found out with some work he could have replaced that clay line under tree, but chose not too. He told me all the root problem was resolved. NOPE. I guess I am going to report him to state licensing board, BBB and Yelp review him. I will gather evidence to take him to small claims court. This is causing immense amount of stress. On top of it, he is VERY intimidating and dare I say abusive. Unfortunately I suffered emotional abuse from ex and so this only adds to my distress, so I try to choose my battles in life. I just think I have to face this one. I hope Karma exists. Woe betide him.



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Congrats Cici. Medicine is not an exact science. Perhaps, that is was its called a practice. Plumbing, in theory, is suppost to be an exact science, for the most part, but, when an exact science is not executed properly.... issues that you have experienced, can happen. Since you are a nurse and not a plumber, you have to get a licensed plumber to document and verify your facts.
Good Luck on all of your complaints and small claims action. May you triumph, on the facts and established principals.
Lets us all know the results.
Best Wishes

IF he was licensed, the state licensing board should have a lot of power to make him resolve the problem. If not, all they can do is institute a lawsuit for contracting without a license. Very often they choose not to do this considering the expenses.

I am glad you finally got some answers.

You should also report him to the city who told you a permit is required.

There are lots of pretenders out there, I kept running into them for some reasons, so much so, I decided to fix the plumbing at my house after firing four of them, and thanks to the folks on this forum, I got through the hurdles and a few others since.

If it's me, I don't like to hire someone to fix a problem they knew existed but ignored, even if it's for free. To me once you break that trust, I no longer trust any of the work, it would cost me too much time and stress to have to comb over every inch of the fix to make sure it was done right. I'd rather just hire someone else to fix, for peace of mind, then go after him in court as you say.