I had a visit from my local Gas company for a "meter inspection" (located in the basement). The inspector found a leak in the service line before the meter in the basement and shut off the gas at the road. Leak is at the elbow above the meter.



I use gas for my gas boiler, 490,000 BTU (heating)



and gas hot water heater (75 gallon)

.

I have had 3 plumbing companies look at it in the last 2 days and have gotten 3 different responses to correct.

1. Trench yard, install new service line from main at the road to the house. Reset meter outside house, reconnect to existing house system. (Plumber says that Gas co will not recertify an old steel line and it must be replaced). Suggest not touching existing house line.

2. Seal leak in existing service line, hope that existing house line will hold a pressure test, if not, start abandoning lines off the main house line until it will hold a pressure test.

3. Seal leak in existing service line, install new house line to hot water boiler and hot water heater.

I am afraid that if I go with 2 or 3, that they Gas co will come out to turn the gas back on and demand that the service line be replaced as well. I am afarid that if I go with #1, that the house line will not pass a pressure test and I will then have to replace it as well.

I called the Gas co today to inquire and they will not answer questions on the phone, do not have a local office you can speak to them at, and scheduled the first available "consultation" for 12 days away.

I need hot water asap (3 year old, 1 year old and wife that is not happy at all).

Current thinking: install new electric hot water heater in tandem with existing gas one. Can have done in 2-3 days. Buys me time to get the gas co here, get a plan, schedule the work, get the gas turned back on, etc. Then I can shut off the breaker to the electric water heater and leave in place in case I ever have a temporary large need in the future, or as a backup in case gas price skyrocket and I can switch to electric.

Looking for advice and really appreciate your help!

Where is PA? I am PECO and I would like to think they would never handle things like that. First of all your inside piping is probably fine. Suggesting to replace it when the problem is pre meter is taking advantage of you. Also in my area the gas company is responsible for anything before the meter so they would fix the problem. Most all meters have been moved outside and I suspect if the line to the street is replace they would do the same with yours.

What you describe about the gas companies response is ridiculous. I would scream loudly. You have a child and no hot water. If you have to go to your local council person whoever that may be in your town.

i agree... gas company is responsible for piping before the meter whether it is on your property or in the street...
around here we get in big trouble if we touch the per-meter piping...

what kind if "Mickey Mouse" gas company do you have. Here, EVERYTHING ahead of the meter belongs to the gas company and if you do ANYTHING to it, you can be fined $10,000.00. IF it is your responsibility, then we would have to see exactly what is leaking and where to determine the best repair. Depending on the circumstances, any of the options could be the right one.

Packy, a question. Does this apply if the meter is mounted inside the house or buidling?

Best Wishes

Thank you for the feedback and advice so far.

I am south of Pittsburgh, gas co is Columbia Gas.

When he turned it off, their inspector said that they own the service line from the shutoff (inside the basement) to the meter. (about a foot!). You can see the shutoff in the first picture. Said I was responsible for the service line from the road to the shutoff in the house.

I am going to spend some time today investigating what they do and do not own. Thank you all for that recommendation. Will post updates.

Thanks!

1.5 OWNERSHIP AND RESPONSIBILITY
(a) The materials, installation, and location of the customer service line and meter setting shall be subject to the standards contained herein.
NiSource Distribution Operations – Columbia Gas p. 3
Standards for Customer Service Lines, Meters, and Service Regulators (Plumbers Guiide) - 2010-10-01
Revised: 03/01/2014 PROPRIETARY
(b) The Gas Company retains ownership of the meter and service regulator(s). The Gas Company also retains ownership of the service line and meter setting.
PA: Certain locations, the customer retains ownership of the service line and meter setting.
(c) The customer shall be responsible for house lines at their own expense.
PA: Certain locations, the customer shall also be responsible for:
1. The installation of new customer service line and meter setting(s),
2. Relocation of the customer service line and meter setting at the customer’s request,
3. Customer service line and meter setting upgrades due to load changes,
4. These lines and settings shall be subject to inspection and test as provided herein, but the Gas Company assumes no responsibility for their condition.
(d) The Gas Company is responsible for the repair/replacement of hazardous leakage on service lines. Only the Gas Company or its agents are authorized to complete repairs and/or replacements.
PA: The customer shall also be responsible for the repair/replacement of hazardous leakage on customer-owned service lines.

WOW......What a load of crap that is!

When you get by this crisis, you need to speak with an HVAC guy. Unless you're heating an old mansion with no insulation, there's no way you need 490,000 btus.Is that a gravity hot water heating system, or gravity conversion?



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" The Gas Company is responsible for the repair/replacement of hazardous leakage on service lines. Only the Gas Company or its agents are authorized to complete repairs and/or replacements"........
just what is a 'service line'?
they are covering their butt so if there is an explosion, you are at fault..

IT should apply no matter where the meter is located. IF the customer has 'permission' to work on the supply line to the meter, then what would prevent him from making a "wildcat" connection and stealing the gas? I have seen it done several times, which is why the high fine if you even "touch" the incoming supply line. THe second reason is that the line to the meter, in most cases is a very high pressure line.

IF they "own" that section, then they should also own the section TO the gas valve, otherwise it is a ridiculous statement.

"Service line" is the supply pipe TO the meter. The house piping is everything AFTER the meter. Most of that, especially "B" & "D", implies that they should be making the repair.



Edited 1 times.

PA: Certain locations, the customer shall also be responsible for:
1. The installation of new customer service line and meter setting(s),
2. Relocation of the customer service line and meter setting at the customer’s request,
3. Customer service line and meter setting upgrades due to load changes,
4. These lines and settings shall be subject to inspection and test as provided herein, but the Gas Company assumes no responsibility for their condition.
(d) The Gas Company is responsible for the repair/replacement of hazardous leakage on service lines. Only the Gas Company or its agents are authorized to complete repairs and/or replacements.
PA: The customer shall also be responsible for the repair/replacement of hazardous leakage on customer-owned service lines.

HE is NOT doing 1,2,3, or 4.

OP's house might be an area of PA, where the property owner owns the service piping and was required to install and maintain the service piping

(b) The Gas Company retains ownership of the meter and service regulator(s). The Gas Company also retains ownership of the service line and meter setting.
PA: Certain locations, the customer retains ownership of the service line and meter setting.

which leads to-

(d) The Gas Company is responsible for the repair/replacement of hazardous leakage on service lines. Only the Gas Company or its agents are authorized to complete repairs and/or replacements.
PA: The customer shall also be responsible for the repair/replacement of hazardous leakage on customer-owned service lines.

EDIT-And I wonder what constitutes non-hazardous leakage?



Edited 1 times.

Thanks to the great discussion so far, I sincerely appreciate the responses and the comments.

From the info from Steve, I can imagine that I am in the "certain situation" where I get to pay for all of it!

The Gas co is scheduled to be here on the 22nd from 8am - noon and I will post the results of our talk for all to enjoy. After all of these comments, I feel much better educated to speak with them about all of this!

On a realted note, I have a plumber scheduled to come Wednesday am to install an electric 50 gallon hot water heater. Our plan is to connect it to the existing natural gas hot water heater. Once this gas situation is resolved, I plan to use the gas heater exclusively (cheaper I guess) and with its 75 gallon tank, we have not run short of hot water yet. So, I plan to just flip the breaker on the electirc one when the gas is back in service and keep in for if/when the natural gas one finally goes out (it was installed in 2002), or I need to build up a reserve of hot water (overnight guests, etc.) Here are a few pics of the current plumbing setup. Any advice on how to best plumb the new one in and connect with the current one are MUCH appreciated! Also, any input on running th electric one on a low setting to preheat the water before entering the gas one, etc.

Hot is on the left, cold is on the right. Also has a connection on the bottom of the tank for a recirculation system. No pump involved. Works quite well in this 3 story home. About 6-8 seconds for the water to get hot on the top floor.



Please excuse the crap on top of the heater. It is the remains of the old ceiling that I removed to get access to all of the pipes. Will be spiffy clean before the gas is turned back on.



Thanks guys!

Paul48,

Concerning the gas boiler....

It appears to be from the 60s. Was in the house when we bought it 3 years ago. Has been cleaned and "tuned" by a local HVAC company last year. Works quite well, so well that we have to crank down some of the radiators throughout the house. 3 story house plus a full basement, app. 7,500 SF of finished space, circa 1880s. Lots of house, but cheap because of the maintenance!

Our plan is to replace this unit with 2 smaller, high efficiency units. Gas prices in our area have been very low the past few winters so I haven't bit the bullet and gotten the new ones installed yet.

Gravity system, no pumps at all. Still has a round mercury thermostat that controls it. Biggest complaint is that even when the house reaches the set temp (app. 70 degrees), the unit turns off, but the hot water that is still in the pipes usually gets the temp up to about 76 before starting to come back down. There is a dial that lets you control the water temp on the unit but I have not touched it since all is actually working...!

If you use the electric heater as "preheater" or first in line, if the gas heater goes out, like it is now, the hot water from the electric one will "sit" in the gas heater and cool off. You need to install it in parallel mode with shutoffs on each heater so the water only goes through the active one.

Thanks HJ, makes perfect sense. Also did not think that if they were installed in a series that when the gas heater was off, I would have to waste 75 gallons of cold water (held in the gas heater tank) before the hot water from the electric heater would come out of the faucets. Parallel mode it is.

Any thoughts on what should I do with the current recirculation piping on the gas heater?

Thanks!

YOu can connect it to both heaters with valves to control which heater it flows in to.

bcb......That is a lot of house.That type of system is perfect for conversion to mod/con boilers.The hardest part will be finding someone to do the job correctly. There is a lot of work that has to be done before the size of the new boiler(s) is even thought of.A word of caution.....the heat provided by mod/cons vs. what you have now, is drastically different.There'll be no more warming the buns in front of a piping hot radiator.Mod/cons produce just enough heat to counter what "Mother Nature" is throwing at you. The radiator that was previously 150*, may only be 100*, with the exact same weather conditions. Because that is all that is needed. The new boiler could be running at 10% of its max. rated output, at 95% efficiency.With a house that large, you might want to also look at constant circulation. Many new systems run with no thermostat and run off outdoor reset only. Take the time to look at jobs that any potential contractor has done.Talk to his customers. Neatness counts...it reflects a well thought-out job. Sorry to stray so far from your original post. Best Wishes

Well, I just had my visit from Columbia Gas so I wanted to post the results for all that have been so helpful.

Gas co said that leak was on the service line before the meter and that I own the service line. The only option I have is to replace the entire service line from the road to the meter. He said I could not test the existing service line, as the gas is currently turned off and they will not allow a plumber to run air from the house into the service line to test and see if it holds.

Also, if a plumber disconnects the gas line at the curb to test the line and see if it holds pressure, the gas co will not let him reconnect the gas line because it is steel and they will not recertify a steel line, must be plastic.

So, at the end of the day, I am looking at putting in a new line from the curb to the house, moving the meter outside and reconnecting to the existing house line. BTW, he said that the existing house line should not present a problem as the pressure inside is less than a pound.

Again, thank you all for your help and advise, I truely appreciate it!

BCB



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Paul48,

Thank you for the advice on the boiler. I will start a new post on here when we tackle that project and put up plenty of pictures. I am actually excited about that project and watching the gas bills shrink!

IT has to be a specific kind of plastic and it is NOT a DIY job because they are supposed to only sell it to certified installers.

hj,

Hope I did not alarm with how I worded the comment, agree not a DIY job at all. I have 1 quote already for the new line and will be getting one more. My DIY projects stop at leaky faucets =). I was looking to this board for help/advice on this as I have never had to deal with this kind of issue before and the education has helped me get this done right, professionally, the first time. Thanks again! BCB