When I walked in the house, I heard water running. It was only on the 1st floor (concrete slab, no basement) and it sounded like it was coming from the guest bathroom toilet but after they refilled from a flush, I didn't see water leaking into the tank or the bowl and when I turned the fill valve off to the toilet, I still heard water running.

I didn't stop hearing it until I turned off the shut off valve outside at entry point of where the water line enters into house. FWIW, the only thing between this point and the guest bathroom is the garage, which has the hot water heater, which is from 1999 but seemed fine and I didn't hear anything unusual.

Your thoughts?

FWIW...I don't know if this is related or just a strange coincidence but before I walked in the house tonite and heard the water running, I noticed the hatch for the main water meter box out in my yard was open.

When I went over to shut it, I found a huge four level thick bee hive, which I couldn't actually see at the time because of all the bees. I sprayed the hell out of it but needless to say, I didn't get close enough to shut it off...And thankfully, I didn't have to.



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The dreaded underslab pipe leak ?

Did you check your water meter to verify that water was actually passing thru your pipes?
Best Wishes

The most common cause would be a cracked hot water line under the floor. Turn off the supply valve to the water heater to see if that also stops the noise.

Thanks!

Quote

The dreaded underslab pipe leak ?

I'm fearful this just might be case. ;(

Quote

Did you check your water meter to verify that water was actually passing thru your pipes?

I checked the water meter and water definately appeared to be passing through. It stopped when I turned off the shut off valve outside at entry point of where the water line enters into house.

Quote

The most common cause would be a cracked hot water line under the floor. Turn off the supply valve to the water heater to see if that also stops the noise.

WONDEFUL! ;( There are at least 3 "valves" om may water heater so I'm not sure which valve is the one to turn off. FWIW..I have an AO Smith EES 52 917

There should be two or three pipes going into the top of the water heater, a cold supply , a hot going out and possibly a relief pipe. There usually is a "C" or "COLD" embossed in the water heater top and the valve on that pipe is the one to shut off.

Thanks!

I found exactly that...
The one marked "COLD" has a Open/Close handle just like the shut valve at the entry point into the house. When I put the "COLD" into the Close position, I still hear the sound of water running and the meter is still showing water passing through and does not stop until I close the shut off valve outside at entry point of where the water line enters into house.

That is not always a good test, because some faucets will still show a hot water leak even with the heater turned off.

Thanks!

Please excuse my ignorance but how is closing the cold vlave not the same test you recommended earlier when you said "Turn off the supply valve to the water heater to see if that also stops the noise."?

IT is the same, but, in some cases that does NOT do the job. When you close the cold water valve, open a hot water faucet to be sure it actually stops the flow at the faucet. If it does and you still have the water sound, then it is a cold water leak, which does happen ocassionally, but not nearly as often as a hot water leak.

Thanks!

A local co. sent a "technician" out for a free "look see" in order to propose how much it would cost to do a "Leak Detection". After waiting 3 days and 2 other appts where they pulled the old no show - no call, the tech shows up 2 hours late for the 3rd appt. I guess "free" is a matter of opinion at this point. Sorry, I had to vent.

ANYWAY...

The technician seemed to know what he was talking about and went through everything we've discussed and with no equipment he's 100% confident he's narrowed it down to a cold water line slab leak(s); possibly starting in the garage somewhere between the hot water heater and the suspect bathroom/toilet but definitely under the bathroom/toilet as well as the laundry sink & potentially the washing machine, which are both a little further away from the hot water heater then the bathroom/toilet but all are basically in the same room.

He has proposed $345 to come back for "Leak Detection" i.e. open the walls to "pin point and cap off the leak(s)" with a "pressure machine". Then he can give me an flat rate "per job" proposal to repair the leak(s). FWIW, he says he's also 100% sure he "will not have dig up the slab unless I want him to put the new line(s) underground".

Your thoughts?

quote; He has proposed $345 to come back for "Leak Detection" i.e. open the walls to "pin point and cap off the leak(s)" with a "pressure machine". Then he can give me an flat rate "per job" proposal to repair the leak(s). FWIW, he says he's also 100% sure

DITCH him and call a professional leak detection company. They will "pinpoint" the leak WITHOUT "opening the walls or doing any other "destructive" operations. ALSO, call you home owner's insurance company to see what they cover. It will usually be ALL the costs of locating the leak, breaking the floor and digging down to the leak, replacing the dirt, patching the floor and repairing the floor covering, less your deductible. THey will NOT pay for actually repairing the pipe, although that is usually a very small item.

Thanks!

The first 2 plumbers I called don't even do leak detection, but they bith recommended the same guy at the same co., which i called 2 days ago but have not heard from. The 3rd plumber (also a GC) said he'd charge as follows for leak detection:

$295 ("Non-invasive, standard underground sonic leak detection equipment, 90% accuracy"
$495 ("more in-depth could mean holes in walls, 95% accuracy"
$695 ("holes in walls and/or demo concrete floor, 100% accuracy"

A friend referred me to a 4th plumber but unfortunately he is the 3rd one that does not do leak detection. That said, he recommended I go with the Plumber/GC and his $295 option; "If he has the right sonar equipment, he SHOULD be able to pin point it without putting holes in the walls or tearing up the floor."

FWIW, I'm thinking I can can put holes in my walls and tear up the floor for a lot less than $695.

As for home owner's insurance...Currently self-insuring on this one.

Plumbers do NOT do "good" leak detection. You want a company that specializes in leak detection and that is ALL they do. To become proficient in it you have to do it ALL the time, not just when you do not have a plumbing job available. A "good" company will have THOUSANDS of dollars worth of equipment, which a plumbing company could NOT afford to invest in. The one I use is ALWAYS 100% accurate and NEVER does "invasive" locating. (And they are cheaper than ALL those estimates).



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Thanks!

I still have not heard back from the one leak detection guy that the 1st 2 plumbers referred so I put a call back into the plumber/GC about his $295 "non-invasive" leak detection offer. And I'll keep looking...That said, if anyone knows a "good" leak detection company in the Fort Lauderdale, FL area who specializes in leak detection and that is ALL they do...I'm all ears. And FWIW, I have a stethoscope, if that'll help.

Now that I think about it; the first indication of a problem was actually at the toilet a couple weeks ago. I suddenly noticed that the tank was not filling with enough water to flush the toilet unless I opened up the fill valve a little more. Hmmm?

Then the "technician" was confident in ruling out a leak outside the house, from the main to the hot water heater and on the hot water line but not so confident in ruling out a leak from the hot water heater to the bathroom.

That would lead me to believe that this is a cold water leak(s) under the slab between the hot water heater and the bathroom. How does that logic sound?

'sounds' good over the internet

BUT ???????????

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

With a cold water leak, anything is logical because they do not give outward signs of the location, but you problem with the toilet had NOTHING to do with the leak. A hot water leak often creates a hot spot on the floor to give an area where the leak is.

Thanks!

So, does it "sound" like a cold or hot leak?

The floor is not hot and the sound does not stop when the water supply to the heater is closed, assuming when you close it none of the hot water faucets work. Therefore, it probably a cold water leak, but it is immaterial once you know you HAVE a leak. After that, it is just a matter of finding out WHERE it is and fixing it, regardless of whether it is hot or cold.



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Thanks!

I was wondering, if it made difference (hot/cold), when the "technician" was trying to determine other than hot flooring.

While waiting to hear back from the company that specializes in leak detection, I'm still looking for others. In the mean time, regarding finding out WHERE the leak is without tearing up anything, I picked up the following at HD, if anyone has any experience/opinions with these or something similar, I'd appreciate your feedback:

Ryobi Pinless Moisture Meter (Model # E49MM01)
[www.homedepot.com]

Ryobi Non-Contact Infrared Thermometer (Model # IR001)
[www.homedepot.com]

Moisture meter is completely useless because any water from a leak is going DOWN into the ground

The infrared detector would only work if the floor was getting warm from a hot water leak and would only give you a general area to work in.

IF a couple of $25.00 instruments could find the leak, the professional companies would NOT spend THOUSANDS on their instruments. ANd their instruments will locate the leak WITHOUT tearing anything apart. In fact the only way you will know they were there will be the pieces fo tape they put on the floor to show which way the pipes run and where the leak is.

Thanks!

That makes sense...
Leak detection cos. in this area are very rare and either in high demand or I don't know what because none have called me back...So, I keep looking. ;( In the mean time, I've been able to flush the toilet and get by using rain water harvested outside.

Today, I went to perform another test so I opened the MAIN and heard a loud humming noise, which appeared to be coming from the wall behind the toilet, I put my stethoscope to the wall and it was definitely coming from behind the toilet and when I listened on the floor, I heard what i can only describe as possibly gurgling water as well. I went in the house to listen by the toilet and continued to hear the humming and some light tapping noises, which continued on & off ultimately diminishing opened the toilet fill valve and flushed the toilet a few times.

That said, 2 days ago a neighbor/builder came by and saw that my hot water heater COLD valve was closed and told me that while I have the MAIN shut off valve closed at the point it enters the house, I should keep the hot water heater COLD valve open, so I opened it. Then yesterday, I heard the hot water heater making a slight hissing noise...I didn't see any water and it stopped soon after.

I'd appreciate input on these new noises AND how much of a concern these noises might be as I prepare to open the drywall in the garage?



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Did you ever find the leak and fix the problem? If so, please share. I’m experiencing the same sound.

Water runs continuously through the pipeline or in the toilet because the float height inside the toilet tank is incorrectly adjusted, a leaky flapper is malfunctioning, and the refill tub is too long.



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