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Author:
sum (FL)
The existing shutoff handle was rusted and broken off, and the hosebib wheel handle also half broken off.
Initially, I was just going to try and get a new handle for both and move on.
However, the philips headed screw for the wheel handle for the hosebib won't come off. The slots are messed up and rusted, and the whole thing has been painted on - thick. I scored a line around it's base with a razor and still won't come out. I then tried to unthread the entire hosebib from the TEE fitting, won't come out. I am not sure, it had cement in the threads. I tried cleaning it a bit, still no luck. May be it was threaded in AND soldered. Here is a side view.
I broke off some of the stucco at the wall behind the tee, and removed the thick paint, and I see a brass colored hex nut behind it. That is a male adapter mostly likely soldered onto the copper pipe inside the wall, correct? And this male adapter is threaded into this tee?
What is this tee made of? It seems to have a female threaded connection on all three sides. Is it a galvanized tee? or a brass tee? How did they make the connection when it's threaded on all three sides?
I could try and drill out the screw to the wheel handle, but I am not sure how much shaft of the screw I would be left with to be able to back it out, and that may be as difficult a task.
OR, I could try and replace the entire hosebib but I can't unthread it out of the tee.
In any event this may be affected by if I want to replace the existing shutoff valve. It seems to be really rusty even through the paint.
As you can see, it's PVC pipe coming up from the ground, glued to a PVC male adapter, then this rusty valve, then a section of what I believe to be galvanized nipple? With a galvanized tee, then a brass male adapter to copper pipe into the wall. Am I right?
So my choices are to either just replace the handles on both. If there is a quick easy way to back off that mutilated screw off the wheel handle.
OR, cut the PVC right below the male adater, and use THAT whole thing as a turn handle to back the tee out of the wall - hoping it will not twist the pipe inside the wall. Then replace that whole thing with copper fittings. New full port ball valve, new copper or brass tee, might need a female adapter at the wall and a short piece of pipe.
Suggestions?
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Author:
hj (AZ)
The hose bibb WILL unscrew from the tee if you get a big enough wrench. If you can find the name of the main valve you should be able to find a new handle for it. The tee and drop pipes are galvanized steel which was a poor way installation.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
the bibb WILL unscrew
try more Wheaties
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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
Paul48 (CT)
Two good sized wrenches, so you don't break the pipe in the wall.
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Author:
sum (FL)
well, if it's galvanized steel nipple and tee, connected to a copper hose bib and a copper male adapter, and a brass shutoff valve, that's why it's corroding right because of the dis-similar materials? Isn't this the reason why they made dielectric unions?
Why would someone go PVC to brass to galvanized to copper?
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
because they could
and
because they DIYed
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
sum (FL)
Well, now I am UN-DIYing theirs, and RE-DIYing mine.
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
Because they COULD and did not know any better, or didn't care. The PVC is not supposed to be visible above the ground any way (12" minimum below ground".
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Author:
sum (FL)
I think because of the galvanized fitting, I am going to redo the whole thing - cut out from below the PVC adapter to the copper fitting at the wall.
Can I unsolder the male copper adapter at the wall? I think to connect a female adapter to it seems so redundant PIPE -> FEMALE ADAPTER -> MALE ADAPTER -> PIPE and it will cause the pipe to back out from the wall a bit more than necessary. Is there a brass tee fitting that has a built in female thread on one end?
Since I have to connect to PVC, I guess I will solder everything first, then make the PVC connection last? May be make it all copper and create the copper PVC at the bottom where it turns horizontal?
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Author:
packy (MA)
i would not touch the male adapter inside the wall.
chip away some ot the wall so you can get a good hold back wrench onto the male adapter and unscrew the tee.
sum, if there is another fitting adjacent to that male adapter and if in the process of trying to heat up the male adapter you heat up the next fitting (if it is close), you will unsweat that next fitting causing it to either come out as you pull and twist the male adapter or it will bubble the solder and leak.
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Author:
sum (FL)
Packy, thank you. I understand now.
So I will leave that male adapter alone.
I was thinking if I need to break off more of the stucco to have a hold onto he hex nut of the male adapter, I was hoping the stucco may do the job. I broke off enough to convince myself it's brass or copper.
Now that you bring up the issue of heating that male adapter could possible cause another nearby fitting to uncouple, I have a followup question to that.
My plan is to thread a female adapter onto that male adapter - using pipe dope. Then solder a really short piece of pipe and the TEE to it. Will the soldering of that short piece of pipe to the end of the female adapter hurt the pipe dope or cause enough heat transfer to the male adapter to possibly cause the same issue?
I know may be the preferred method is to solder the female adapter to the pipe and the tee and the drop pipe etc...first, then thread it onto the male adapter. However, I seem to always have problems with doing it that way and end up tightening to a 9 'O' clock and not being able to turn anymore without fear of breaking something. So I prefer to thread the female adapter in first, but in this case I may end up with a different issue.
Hmmm...
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Author:
hopes2 (WI)
I would also get down to bare metal for your ground (bonding) clamp.
Add a little dielectric silicone compound on pipe and clamp to ensure a continued corrosion free contact.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
quote; Is there a brass tee fitting that has a built in female thread on one end?
Yes, it is called an "entrance, or service, tee", because the female thread is usually for a hose bibb, but you can reverse it and then use a female "street" adapter for your hose bibb.
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Author:
packy (MA)
stuff a wet cloth inside the stucco to keep things inside cool when soldering.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
Don't solder. Screw a female fitting, or the service tee, on to the male adapter sticking out of the wall.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
replace the 'gal' tee with a brass tee 'on the run' and put your adapter on the bull looking down
or even the ball valve on the bull with a nipple, then the adapter ---> connect the rest
or send me a plane ticket and buy me a pizza when I arrive
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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
hj (AZ)
Just goes to show that there are many "acceptable" ways of doing it.
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
yeah
...I like acceptable AND easy AND serviceable...
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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
sum (FL)
How is sending you a plane ticket EASY and SERVICABLE?
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Author:
hj (AZ)
WEll, it is easy, because you do not have to get the wrenches out. Serviceable, well I guess that would be in the eyes of the beholder.
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Author:
sum (FL)
Thanks for all the suggestions so far. However, the PLOT THICKENS.
As this property is newly acquired, I am having to do retrace what the last "DIY" owner did. I must say I am not impressed.
You might have read that I was asking about sewer and water capping in another thread, as required by the city to be performed prior to granting me a permit to demolish the illegal gazebo with a toilet in it. I confirmed with the city that it is not enough to cap the sewer and supply line at the toilet, but need to back trace to the source.
[www.plbg.com]
I know where the sewer line leads, it goes 100' to a sump pump and tie into the existing line. I can cut the drain there.
The supply line is a bit tricky to figure out, as the entire backyard is covered with a concrete deck. What I did notice is when I shut off the main shutoff valve to the unit, that gazebo is still getting water into the stupid illegal toilet!
It has to tee off somewhere and BEFORE the shutoff valve, as ridiculous as it sounds.
So I went to this messed up valve and hosebib and started to dig, and I am glad I did.
He did tee off from the main line BEFORE the shut off valve. What kind or @#$%& does that?
The PVC branch is the line going to the toilet!
Now that I have exposed this PVC line that goes to the toilet, I think what makes sense to the city is for me to cut this PVC here, and cap it. That kill the rest of that line. Later on, I might reactivate it for a hosebib if I want to.
However, what concerns me now is the metal line I assume galvanized coming in. Is this living on borrowed time?
With this new development, where is the best starting point for my reworking of this valve/hose bib project?
Should I back out the PVC male adapter from that metal elbow? I am thinking not. It looks quite fragile. I am not sure if I remove that PVC adapter I can guarantee a new fitting to be threaded into it not breaking that elbow or establishing a tight seal?
or is this metal pipe/fitting stronger than it looks?
Thoughts?
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Author:
hj (AZ)
quote; What kind or @#$%& does that?
One who wants to make a connection independent of the house, for one. But also one who only knows how to work with PVC for another, since no plumber would EVER make a connection like that near the surface of the ground.
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Author:
sum (FL)
should I back out the PVC male adapter?
I think the most straight forward approach would be to unthread the PVC male adapter from the galvanized elbow, then screw in a dielectric union, then copper all the way.
But I am really worried about the integrity of this elbow whether it may be too corroded to make a sound joint.
The other option is to keep the PVC TEE, cap off the branch of the tee and replace everything above that with copper?
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
because of the ground wire (which does NOT go to ground now because of the PVC) I would replace the entire "riser' with galvanized using a union or use copper
? borrowed time ? maybe, but you can fix it later IF it fails
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
hj (AZ)
I am not sure what that "ground wire" is, but it is definitely NOT the house ground. Using a dielectric union would still require that the ground be connected to the galvanized below it.
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Author:
sum (FL)
Well as far as ground, I can tighten a SS hose clamp around the galvanized pipe, no?
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Author:
sum (FL)
Will it be prundent to scrap the galvanized pipe and elbow a bit to assess their conditions?
Still trying to decide if I should back the PVC male adapter out of the elbow...or remove the elbow.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
Yes. IT would be a "handyman" job, but make sure it has continuity to the ground.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
not dielectric but standard union if using gal pipe
DO NOT attempt to unscrew elbow - the pipe may/will 'crush' from holdback wrench
unscrew PLASTIC adapter from top of elbow
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
hj (AZ)
He is referring to a dielectric where the galvanized converts to copper.
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