A week ago I lined the bowl of my downstairs/basement toilet with 4 half-folded Bounty paper towels soaked in LCR to remove the calcium deposit ring. I left it overnight and had forgotten all about it, when someone had to use the toilet yesterday and flushed. The toilet is next to the outside west wall of my house at groundlevel almost straight line to the septic tank which is 50ft down grade.
When the nearby shower basin would not drain, I remembered -- and figured what had happened. First tried a very old plunger, one of those that have an inner membrane bell portion which (the inner bell part) I discovered separated and had disappeared in the hole too and did not fix the problem. Then tried to work a snake in more than about 20" but only managed to scratch the porcelain and it refused to go any further. Left it all till this morning when the shower basin had drained completely. I ran the sink on the north partition for control and the water soon started to rise in the shower basin with some blub, blub air bubble, same bubbles in the toilet this time, meaning the blockage is now beyond the vent pipe and intersection to the sewerpipe.

The upstairs toilets still drain well into a different waste line that seems to join beyond the blockage outside.
I have never had a problem with the toilet waste line(s) before; the toilet is 12" offset from this waste line out of the house. I decided to take the toilet off, but discovered that during later floor tiling the toilet base was securely 3/8" cemented in with sanded grout. My Roby grout cutter tool blade dulled immediately.
P&G told me "Our towels are not designed to be flushed down the toilet" Doah! when I called if they can think of any chemical to dissolve the Bounty in there. Not a good idea with a septic system anyway.
The blockage is probably very close ~18-20" from the toilet where the waste line enters into the sewer line. No sign of a have-a-look pipe out on the lawn near the house which is 60 y/o.
I am at my wit's end.
Q: Is a sewer drain specialist my only solution at this point? Good plumbers get $190 the first 15 minutes in this area. This could get very expensive. I could get a better grout cutter blade and try to get the toilet off to easier access the blockage which I believe to be nearby and try to gently fish the paper out with a wirehook maybe?
Any good advice will be much appreciated, Thank you in advance!

The toilet will likely need to be removed so that the obstruction can be pushed on to the septic, or hooked and retrieved . I'd probably chip the grout away with a chiesel and hammer.

6' extension toilet auger

[www.homedepot.com]

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

quote; Good plumbers get $190 the first 15 minutes i

Sign me up. But, I would probably be too embarrassed to charge that fee.

Try a GOOD auger like the one linked. I bought that model and found it could easily handle a clog that my old cheap toilet auger would not dislodge.

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Links to the State of Wisconsin Plumbing Code:
[docs.legis.wisconsin.gov]
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I am not a plumber.
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Thank you , everyone for the suggestions, I will look at that auger tomorrow, hope they have it.
Wouldn't this auger push it further down into the sewer line with still 45 feet to go to the tank?
Taking off the toilet as suggested above, I will try also, but need to get a diamond blade for the thick cement/grout cutting, my hammer and chisel did nothing.the tumble marble tiles surrounding the base are 5/8" thick, they were placed around the base later, so it is not one of those lightweight new grouts.
Any suggestions how to protect the porcelain where it narrows into the hole from scratching permanently? Would a double row of masking tape work? I have scooped out all the water.

If removing the toilet and if the auger don't work what exactly should I look for under professions, plumber listing sewer and drain installation or rotorooter type clogged drain advertisers?
What about slow acting enzymes would they eventually dissolve the paper fibers to a point where a water hose bubble pressure tool has a chance to move the blockage? I have a small one for the sinks from when I had tenants. With the two bath rooms upstairs, I have the time if necessary to wait for a slower process to work, if that is possible
Thank you everyone who took the time to answer.

Erika



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just learning how this site works. got it.



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A drain pipe bladder would be my choice if the auger is unsuccessful.

? .... placed around the base later .... ?

do you mean they tiled around the toilet while it was still in place?

if so, start saving for both a new toilet AND a plumber to properly raise the flange to the proper elevation



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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

If it's just 4 paper towells I'd bet a new plunger would do the trick. Save busting the grout as a LAST resort.

Yes, the toilet remained in place properly placed as per your spec.there and then later tiles were laid around it and the gap grouted in.
I have hopeful news: I ran the sink again for a few minutes and tonight it drained properly and it did this time not rise water in the shower basin. So I decided to clean the shower basin of the muck that had come up yesterday from the big drainpipe when it had no where else to go.
I used a Bounty towel soaked with undiluted Clorox and started cleaning. The towel disintegrated within a minute to almost mush. This is very good news. So I poured 1 pint of clorox into the toilet covered it well to restrict the fumes after an hour gently added some water to top off and dilute the fluid-water/clorox layer closed up again and am now hoping that within a few hours the 4 sheets of bounty will be softened up enough that I can dislodge them and first the rubber plunger broken off piece using a 14 gauge long wire with an L-hook,rotating it gently until I hopefully hit the obstacle. If that brings up the rubber part and some pieces of paper towel then use one of the plastic big accordion plungers and if that does not do it, get the large auger from the boxstore. My 6 ft homeowner type apparently was not strong enough yesterday. Have high hopes in time and the destructive force of bleach.
Erika

you missed my point:

the toilet should NOT have remained in place

the toilet should have been removed

the flange should have been removed

the new tiles installed

THEN

the flange reinstalled ON TOP OF THE NEW TILE so the toilet sits ON TOP OF THE FLOOR

note how both the flange AND the toilet rest ON the finished flooring:


the trick, of course, being/having/using a PLUMBER knowing how to PROPERLY raise the flange

now, as you see, the removal of the toilet w/o breakage is very very very difficult, if even possible

? would/will a new toilet fit in the 'hole' of the tile job?

we call this type of 'handyman' job: who flung dung and run ?!

sorry for the tough love

and

BEST OF LUCK

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638



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Yes, I did get your point, and the toughlove...the tiles were installed bit later (low cost job) when I moved in without removing the toilet and the tiles were custom cut around the toilet which was installed earlier and correctly as in your spec drawing, I had come up for that work and hired one of the top New Canaan firms for the job: flange sitting supported on the cementfloor of theeven now still unfinished basement, the toilet base on top of it, all before I actually moved here. This is an Eljer, seems one of the first water savers ca. 19 years ago, when the waste hole was even less diameter than they are now, a new base is not likely to fit into the existing tile cut-out space.
If the toilet has to be destroyed to get at the rubber blocking part presumably still inside it, I will still have to remove every last bit of the remaining grout holding the porcelain base pieces. They left some extra tiles, no problem. The new base to support the raised flange would be done by a good plumber to meet the 5/8" high tumble marble height, but this is all a very big repair, requiring also tile removal and retiling. The long way to the septic tank will have to be power flushed or snaked. This morning when I came down, dirty sewage had risen up 4"-5 " inside the shower basin and right up to the rim of the toilet ( first time in the toilet) after draining so well last night. There was nothing standing in either last night.

I worked this afternoon on it, but cannot get the wire or the 6ft snake around the sharp U-bend in the toilet, tried very gently rotating to catch and also forcefully with more torque. 18" that was it. Used the new large accordion plunger in both the shower and the toilet but nothing moved at all. I am ordering a better sanded grout cutter blade tomorrow to try work away the grout and hopefully be able to remove the toilet, to push out the blockage in it and then hopefully dissolve the paper blockage further down. It seems the paper towel softened by the Clorox yesterday and that I assume is why it moved and really clogged all up totally overnight. All upstairs waste waters have no way to drain now but into the shower and toilet. I'm set up with buckets and basins at each sink until I can resolve this. I expect it will take a few days. The big expense job is my last option, it would be very hard on my budget.
Thank you for the spec. drawings and the photo.
Erika

break out the old bowl

retile right over the old flange or remove old flange and then retile (PLAN AHEAD)

install one of these or similar technique


the principle involved:


as per: [www.bing.com]

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638



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