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Author:
DrumsAndGuns (TX)
Recently I have experienced two leaks in my attic November 2013 & March 2014. The most recent leak caused damage to the ceiling, walls, and carpeting in my home. The home was built 7 years ago.
The leak in November 2013 was very small in the attic causing minor damage to ceiling sheetrock. A plumber came out and repaired the leak without incident. However, he said something interesting about the glue used on my CPVC pipes. He said the builder used no cleaner before gluing the pipes.
Here I am 3 months later with a major homeowners insurance claim. The same plumber came out to repair leak and again said the pipes were not properly sealed. The insurance adjuster will be here Wednesday to look at the damage. Do I have any recourse knowing another leak could occur at anytime? My opinion is that the water lines should all be replaced in my home. I do have the section of pipe the plumber replaced.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
I cannot tell you if primer was used or not, because there are clear primers. However, I do know, from experience, that CPVC joints in the attic can fail because the temperature is excessive. Here, it happens to fire sprinkler lines because they are the primary uses of CPVC, other than repipes of PB systems.
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Author:
waukeshaplumbing (WI)
i use the 1 step yellow glue...no primer needed
why would anyone use a 2 step primer/glue?
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Author:
North Carolina Plumber (NC)
1 Step is not code approved here. We must use a purple primer , then solvent.
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Author:
vic (CA)
"why would anyone use a 2 step primer/glue?"
Because the 2 step methods results in a stronger solvent joint.
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Author:
SwimRunPlumb (MI)
How can that statement be proven?
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Author:
vic (CA)
Not really that difficult to confirm. Maybe about 40 years ago in one of the classes that I took during my apprenticeship at L.A. Trade Tech we had an "expert" come in and lecture us on solvent welding and then we solvent welded plastics with and without primers. We let them dry and then cut the fittings apart.
You'd be surprised on the difference. Test it yourself. Primers not only clean but they also soften the pipe and fittings.
It's true that possibly products have developed since then however ask yourself this (no need to reply):
If you feel that one step wash & wax for your car is "as good as" first washing your car and then waxing it then one-step might be ok for you.
Me?
First using a specific car cleaning product and washing my car, then allowing it to dry and then waxing my car I'm sure is still superior to the "new" one-step wash and wax.
Yes, both do the job.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
the 'one step' solvent cement still requires that the pipe and fitting be 'cleaned'
"how" would be the untold issue ~ imo: it would not be cleaned adequately, merely wiping is NOT enough
THEREFOR:
a quick wipe followed by 'purple primer' followed by solvent is the 'best practice'
REMEMBER: code is the MINIMUM, not necessarily even 'good practice', let alone 'best practice'
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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
"FLOWGUARD GOLDĀ®*
MEDIUM YELLOW ONE-STEP
CPVC SOLVENT CEMENT"
4. Clean pipe and fitting with a listed primer. Where
local codes permit, may be used without primer.
from: [www.oatey.com]
again: the easiest way to clean the cpvc pipe is to use a primer
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
DrumsAndGuns (TX)
I live in Chambers County TX. Apparently the county uses the IBC 2009 Code.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
? what part of: 'code is the MINIMUM' do we not understand ?
today, imo, code is almost worthless to ensure QUALITY
it merely helps prevent BUTCHERY
the manufacturer of the 'one step' recommends use of primer
PERIOD
ps. most code (? IBC also ?) defers to manufacturer's instructions
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
Just ask the companies that use the two step method? They would tell you the "truth", wouldn't they?
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Author:
hj (AZ)
quote; uses the IBC 2009 Code.
I call the IBC code the "anything goes code" because it seems anytime someone wants to do something a little "cheaper" the code is changed to allow it. One reason why the IBC contractors rejected the merger with the UPC. They didn't want to have to "upgrade" their practices.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
hj;
the 'truth' from Oatey:
"FLOWGUARD GOLDĀ®*
MEDIUM YELLOW ONE-STEP
CPVC SOLVENT CEMENT"
4. Clean pipe and fitting with a listed primer. Where
local codes permit, may be used without primer.
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
hj (AZ)
IT looks like they are CYA on both sides of the fence.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
yep
but my 'interpretation' is that primer is preferred
since the pipe needs to be CLEAN and primer is the easiest way to clean it .........
DOH
PRIMER IS GOOD PRACTICE
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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
SwimRunPlumb (MI)
OK, thanks Vic, good information. I wasn't trying to be argumentative. I just like to hear that there actually is a reason behind people's thought processes other than "that is how we have been taught and that is how it's always been."
I agree that primer should be used, but I was confused because I was under the impression that Flowguard Gold did not require it. Bernabeau has shed some light on that "assumption".
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
I am obsessive / compulsive.
I actually read directions and 'spec' sheets.
code = minimum
good practice = good quality
best practice = when can / if can, why not ? if affordable
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
hj (AZ)
"Red Hot Blue" glue also says it can be used without primer because it is aggressive enough to make a good joint.
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