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Author:
akgarrett62 (TN)
House build in 1960, one-story.
The vertical pipe (lead or cast iron) coming up through the sub floor sits approximately 1 3/8" higher than the sub floor AND the sub floor is slightly uneven...about 1/4" higher on the back left. The main problem creating all the trouble is that pipe sits higher than the sub and there's not much room to get something like a saw in there to trim it, so it seems I have to build up the floor and level it out.
what would be the appropriate steps to fix all of this?
(would you level the floor, or possibly just use shims around the toilet cause it's going to wobble.)
I would appreciate some suggestions so I don't have to call a plumber for a somewhat minor job.
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Author:
packy (MA)
there is a BIG difference between lead pipe and cast iron.
if it is lead, you trim it down to about 1/2" over the finish floor, slide a brass flange over the lead and peen it flat all around.
cast iron is harder to deal with.
in the old days we would install a cast iron flange and pour a lead joint. any pipe sticking up above the flange height was tapped outward with a hammer and it simply broke off. a jagged edge at the top did not matter.
in your case, you need to cut that cast iron to the approximat3e height of the finish floor and install a flange like this..
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Author:
akgarrett62 (TN)
...see my next reply
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
akgarrett62 (TN)
Is there a way I could mount the flange on top of the tile like it's supposed to be, considering that there is about 1" space around between the pipe and the tile? ...the diameter on the opening of the tile is larger than a regular flange size (a regular flange would fit inside the tile)
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Author:
packy (MA)
the flange is always mounted on top of the tile.
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Author:
akgarrett62 (TN)
do they make an extra wide topped flange?
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Author:
packy (MA)
no, you can just put some shims under the lip of the flange and then secure it with non-rusting screws.
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Author:
akgarrett62 (TN)
out of curiosity, when you sit down is most of the weight of a person 'absorbed' by the outside of the toilet that's sitting on the floor, or does a lot of it 'transfer' to the part that's on top of the flange?
...it seems the best thing to do is to get one of the flanges in your picture, but the one they sell that is 'deep bodied', and if the hole in the tile is too big, just buy a toilet flange support kit to cover the extra space. ...What do you think? that way the sub floor is completely taken out of the picture
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Author:
Paul48 (CT)
What led you to this point?...Remodeling? What is below this toilet?Basement?
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Author:
akgarrett62 (TN)
One-story house, built in 1960. When we bought the house 5 years ago, the bathroom had been tiled. We removed the wallpaper in there and painted so I removed the sink and toilet so we could get in all areas. A new flange wasn't set on top of the tile (I forget the exact configuration they had it in after it was tiled). So now that the bathroom is repainted, I want to install the toilet back as properly as possible...it's just not a perfect configuration.
...but as I put in my previous post I believe I understand how to install it properly
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Author:
packy (MA)
now i'm confused. you removed the toilet to tile and paint. did you also remove the flange?
if you can post a picture of what you have, the answer to your question will be most precise.
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Author:
Paul48 (CT)
OK...How was a toilet set on top of this pipe that is that high? Things are very confusing with your post. Is it lead, or cast iron? Is the home built on a slab?
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Author:
hj (AZ)
quote; when you sit down is most of the weight of a person 'absorbed' by the outside of the toilet that's sitting on the floor, or does a lot of it 'transfer' to the part that's on top of the flange?
If you install it properly, NONE of the weight is on any part of the flange. The FLOOR is supporting the toilet and its user.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
I think I have read all your responses, and if so, I do not find anything there that tells me what kind of pipe you have, other than the first one which said "lead or cast iron" and those two are completely DIFFERENT and would require vastly different methods to correct your problem, assuming WE would think it was a problem.
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Author:
akgarrett62 (TN)
Here's what I'm looking at. I'd like to use a cast iron flange like was posted in previous pic and I'll probably have to use a flange support to cover that span. ...if I'm right, that should take the sub floor and height of the iron pipe out of the equation. Would a flange support hold the weight of the cast iron flange? I'd want the flange that has a deep body and fits over the pipe and compresses to the outside of the iron pipe.
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Author:
Paul48 (CT)
OK.....I think we all thought you were dealing with a pipe that was too long. As for the void under the flange (when installed), I'd cut a donut out of a 2x10, or whatever combination of plywood that would bring the height up to the finished floor.Clean up the hole, then glue it, and screw it.And, that is cast iron.
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
akgarrett62 (TN)
Should I still use a flange support to get some bite between the cast iron flange and tile?
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Author:
Paul48 (CT)
That hole is so big, I don't know how much tile you're going to catch.If you do as I suggest, and use construction adhesive, It'll give you a solid base to screw the flange down to.Make sure you have the flange in hand, before you start making anything to fill the void. Maybe someone has a better idea.
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Author:
packy (MA)
given what you have here i would use an insert flange rather than one that goes over the pipe.
as advised, build up the space with wood to bring it level with the top of the tile.
i would apply bowl wax to the gasket on the flange to help it slide in better and also to help it seal any irregularities in the cast iron pipe. fasten it well with screws long enough to reach the sub floor. the job is pretty easy to do..
remember to use good quality solid brass toilet bolts and nuts not the plated steel variety.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
You have two problems'
1. The pipe might not be high enough for a "compression" flange to reach it, and
2. The opening in the flange, because there will not be a pipe even with the top of it, will be almost the sames as the o.d. of a wax seal.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
I guess, from your reply, that you are advising him to use a "plastic" flange rather than a metal one.
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Author:
packy (MA)
since the flange will insert into the pipe and have no real direct mechanical connection, either plastic or cast iron will work.
a plastic flange can be gotten in longer length so it might be preferable.
what is more important is that the rubber gasket fit snugly into the pipe.
this one looks ideal. it is long and has a stainless steel ring.
note..the flange must be for 4" pipe.
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Author:
akgarrett62 (TN)
So is the inside flange a better idea because the uneven edges of the top of the pipe? I'm sure I could file or grind it to even and smooth it. I like the idea of the deep bodied cast iron that compresses to the outside since it would seem to be stronger.
As mentioned earlier I'll need to even the sub floor a little since it's out just a bit... I'm guessing by shims. Is it best to put the shim underneath the area of the donut I have to cut from the 2x8 or above it?
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Author:
packy (MA)
the unevenness I was referring to is the surface on the inside of the pipe.
don't worry about the top edge of the pipe.
use the inside type flange. you will get a better seal at the wax ring to flange connection.
the strength you should worry about is the fastening of the flange to the floor beneath it.
shims under the wooden filler might be a better idea. make sure the screws you use to secure the flange down are long enough to reach thru the sub floor.
now, stop worrying about this. it is a simple repair. unless you are the world's worst mechanic, you really can't screw this one up.
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