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Author:
george 7941
I recently installed a 400A fill valve on a customer's toilet and noticed that the Fluidmaster seat disc #5103 which I had installed about fifteen months age was beginning to lose small chunks of the red rubber material. This is in the city of Toronto, with tightly controlled water quality. While there is some chlorine in the water, I don't think there is excessive amounts of chlorine.
I had switched over to Fluidmaster flappers, expecting them to be high quality, based on their superb 400A fill valve. Apparently I was wrong.
hj had posted a while back that he uses Korky flappers, so my next step is to try Korky flappers out.
What is really surprising is that some toilets have not had their flappers replaced in ten to fifteen years and they still do not leak. I think these flappers are OE.
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
jimmy-o (CA)
I have not seen that issue with the 400A seal, so I don't know if something is up with them.
IN GENERAL, most plumbing products, including a lot of brand name stuff, is now being made in China, and they do not have good material quality control.
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Author:
Wheelchair
A little chlorine in the tank water will hasten the time of wear down or break down on those flappers. Is your customer using the tank n bowl cleaner that you may not be aware of?
Best Wishes
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Author:
Paul48 (CT)
I don't think it would be an unrealistic expectation to have to replace a $2.50 (retail) item, once a year. And at that price, how much quality, and or quality control could be applied to that item? Just trying to keep it real.
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Author:
george 7941
I don't think the customer is using any in-tank cleaners. She is a regular customer of mine and I have never seen any signs of cleaner usage. Din't specifically ask her though. I just replaced the tilt disc seat and did not charge her for it.
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Author:
george 7941
I am going to have to disagree with you on that. I should not have to set up yearly apointments with all my customers to replace the toilet flappers. Even if the item costs only $2.50, my bill for the job will be far higher than that.
The cost of the flapper is not an issue. If i had to pay $20 for a flapper with a life nexpectancy of ten years, I would pay it. As I pointed out in my original post some flappers seem to go up to fifteen years without any issues.
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Author:
Paul48 (CT)
I think that even though a lot of these manufacturers make the flush and fill valves for the toilet manufacturers, the product they supply the toilet manufacturer is a higher quality than what they sell as aftermarket replacements. If I make the flappers used in XYZ toilets, the last thing I want is failures in 6 months. They will find another manufacturer, and I'll lose the account. So I make sure the material I mold their flappers with is virgin material. The ones I sell to the big box stores contain say 10% regrind.A lot of speculation, and no way to prove any of it, but it seems logical.
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Author:
waukeshaplumbing (WI)
i use fluid masters for fill valves all the time, but if a customer needs a new flapper i always go factory original
typically i rebuild the whole toilet back to original....havent met a customer yet that minded paying to completely rebuild a toilet thats leaking...when i tell them i will make their 5-10 year old toilet back to brand new mechanically they always agree
its rare i just replace a flapper...maybe 2-3x in 5 years
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Author:
hj
On the contrary, the manufacturers want the "cheapest" quality, because when you are talking about a "million" pieces even a penny saved is big money. As Thom McCahill said many, many years ago, "The manufacturers start putting 50 cent jacks in the cars when they run out of 25 cent ones".
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Author:
Paul48 (CT)
There is a little more that may support my supposition. With the coming of the 1.6 gpf toilets, there was a huge outcry because of flapper failure.Toilet manufacturers, flapper manufacturers, and the companies that make the cleaning products were all involved.I agree with what you are saying hj, but in this case, the government may be forcing the issue.In a free market, the toilet maufacturers will still get the better quality at a reduced price.They know they are in the cross-hairs, and will hold the flapper manufacturers to a certain standard.
On a different note.... isn't it odd that the Fluidmaster seal originally mentioned in this post, comes with "O" warranty. How can you sell something like that for a mandated, water conserving toilet?
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Author:
hj
WHO actually "collects" on a flapper warranty anyway, whether it is one year or five?
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Author:
WC (VA)
If starting as a complete new replacement - what type/design of flush valve would a professional plumber install in their OWN toilet? Would the Mansfield 210, 211 etc.have any preference? As a home owner they appear to be better than the "flapper" type flush valves and they certainly appear to be less likely to "hang-up" in a partial open/closed position which would be especially good in a commercial business. Any agreement or disagreement?
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