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Author:
sum (FL)
Needed to replace two angle valves under my kitchen sink. The existing ones work OK except when I turn it off when it passes 2 'O' clock position it leaks a little on the hot side. So I decided to replace both of them with a new quarter turn valve.
Went to Home Depot and was looking at the plumbing aisle, and the guy there was helpful in pointing out where the valves are. I got what I needed and was ready to leave he said "don't forget to put a bit of compound around the pipe before you tighten it."
I asked him what he meant by "compound", he showed me a tube of the Great White Pipe Dope. I explained to him that it's a compression connection not a threaded one, he said it doesn't matter the dope would make it a better seal.
Is there any truth to this? I am not sure this makes any sense, I thought I would ask the experts here if anyone has heard of apply pipe dope around the pipe for a compression connection.
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Author:
packy
any form of lubrication prevents galling.
galling usually refers to the adhesive wear and transfer of material between metallic surfaces in relative converging contact.
a couple of drops of oil will do the same thing..
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Author:
waukeshaplumbing (WI)
i get less leaks on them if i use dope....it greases things and keeps them from binding while tightening...it is true
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Author:
dlh (TX)
there is no reason to use it but some do. i could see it being used on the threads maybe just so it is easier to tighten but you have to be careful to not over tighten it also.
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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"
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Author:
sum (FL)
OK let me make sure I understand.
I am not talking about the compression nut that is threaded which you tighten on the compression fit.
He was talking about putting dope around the smooth copper pipe over which the compression ferrule slides. Wouldn't that cause irregularity as the dope dries out?
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Author:
SwimRunPlumb (MI)
Sum, you must've missed my post a few down about this exact subject.
I started the thread because hj said that he never uses dope on compression fittings, so I tried it for the second time in my life and had a leak. I said that I will be going back to using dope again like I was taught. I have always used dope on compression fittings, along with EVERY other plumber that I have ever worked with or known.
This seems to be another one of those 50%-50%-10% subjects. I have attempted to not use dope two times in my life now, and both times the results were poor.
Yes, I will take the extra 5 seconds to put a little dope on the pipe and ferrule to make a better connection, and YES, have the ability to spin it a LITTLE if I want to.
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Author:
hj
quote; I thought I would ask the experts here if anyone has heard of apply pipe dope around the pipe for a compression connection
If I ever do it, it will be the FIRST time. I take the valve out of the package, slide it onto the tubing, and tighten it, PERIOD.
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Author:
hj
IT would have ABSOLUTELY no effect on anything. The seal is at either end of the compression ring where it "bites" into the tubing, and the compound would do nothing at that point. At least on the outside of the compression ring it might ease the torque requirements to seal it.
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Author:
hj
You have done it twice and had leaks. I have done it "thousands and thousands" of times without leaks, so the difference must be in our techniques.
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Author:
SwimRunPlumb (MI)
I am saying that my results were poor, and I had leaks most likely because probably attempted to roll the stop slightly. I agree that if left alone, it does not need any dope or lube.
But....the dope will give you the option to roll it slightly with no problem.
I know, many of you say you cannot and should not do this, we have already been over that. I am simply saying in my experience, which includes all of the guys I have worked with, twisting it slightly is most definitely NOT a problem.
They used to say the world was flat and that you would fall off the edge if you kept sailing....good thing somebody didn't believe the hearsay and tried it for themselves.
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Author:
jimmy-o (CA)
We would put nothing on the copper pipe. The friction is on the moving pieces, namely where the nut contacts the ferrule, and of course the nut threads. Light oil helps for both. I have used teflon paste on both ( relatively a non-hardening material) and have had no problem 10 years later removing the valve.
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Author:
NICK (CA)
I have never used anything on new applications, but I have used a few wraps of tape around the sleeve if keeping the existing nut and sleeve, if it is not removable without damaging the pipe, when changing to a new valve.
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Author:
hj
I CAN rotate the valves if necessary, but that has nothing to do with "greasing them".
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Author:
hj
My procedure with replacing a valve and reusing the nut and ferrule is the same. Take the valve out of the box, remove its nut, put the valve on the tubing, and tighten the old nut onto the valve. Still no leaks.
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Author:
packy
hj said...quote... thousands and thousands" of times..
hj, if i told you once, i told you a million times.. don't exagerate!!!
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Author:
joe plumber (NE)
Here we go again.Seems like there is only one way to do it and all the rest of you guys have been wrong,as par for the course on almost every plumbing question posted here.JMHO
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Author:
hj
"Thousands and thousands" are more than two thousand, NOT a million. Since an average house has about twelve of them, it only takes about 80 houses to reach ONE thousand, and I have done MANY multiples of "80 houses" in the past 60+ years.
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Author:
hj
There not ONE right way and the rest are wrong. There is the way WE do it, and the rest of you can waste time, and materials, doing it your way.
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Author:
LemonPlumber (FL)
where you reuse the nut and ferrol of the preassigned valve I would,install a wrap of teflon tape to the existing ferrol only/copper\. Where the tubing is new to compression.ask the retailer to consult the manufacturer and correct the sales men !!!!Could you guild them to the brass craft website?sorry cannot dial in the /////astm\\\\ user ID.but compression brass is identified,and correctly compressed.NO pipe dope or teflon by tubing use!!!Sum.help me help you.What the frick does ASTM.mean.Find your plumbing at store or warehouse a simple as the number seems.Ask the next stupid ass, to show you the msda sheet on that product number as his mouth opens with dumb wrong answers.Sorry many stores are using retired plumbers to serve.they are few and far between.I bet he voided the products warranty with his words.
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Author:
hj
WWO CARES what ASTM stands for. It is merely a testing laboratory that companies conform to their standards when they produce goods. The average user does not care WHAT standard was used as long as the item does the job.
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Author:
joe plumber (NE)
Amazing if I do say so .jmo
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Author:
jimmy-o (CA)
ASTM
ASE
NSF
UPC
UL
FM
AGA
GAMA
NEMA
AHRI
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Author:
hj
Among others, but WHO actually checks which agency is cerifying the products they use. I do NOT.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
ASTM - am. soc. of/for test. and material(s)
ASE - am. soc. of engineers
NSF - natl. sanitary foundation
UPC - univ. plbg. code
UL - underwriter's lab.
FM - factory mutual
AGA - am. gas assoc.
GAMA - ? genl. aviation mfgrs. assoc ?
NEMA - natl. electric. manuf. assoc.
AHRI - ? allied health research inst. ?
? your point ?
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Measure twice, cut once.
Retired Plumbers Local Union #1
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Author:
hj
You left out ASME. IT is not there now, but I think originally LEMON posted asking whether the OP had checked his item's testing laboratory certification.
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
jimmy-o (CA)
I might have made up ASE. I meant ASSE...American Society of Safety Engineering
GAMA Gas Appliance Manufacturers Assosciation
AHRI American Heating and Refrigeration Institute.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
ASME - am. soc. of mech. engineers
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Measure twice, cut once.
Retired Plumbers Local Union #1
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Author:
hj
What about IAPMO? Once you start down the "alphabetical soup" slope, there is no end to it.
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Author:
LemonPlumber (FL)
We do never stand by the test.we can jump on the failures as resolute s veri.find one torque spec for me.
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