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Author:
cvcman
Ok here is a pic of what I got, i looked at a gate valve with threaded ends and it LOOKS like I can take apart the coupling fitting at the bottom of my exsisting valve then unthread the valve off the threaded nipple, then just put everything back toghether the same way but with the gate valve ???
[i147.photobucket.com]
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Author:
jimmy-o (CA)
Problem is a ball valve will be longer than that, end to end.
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Author:
cvcman
its not though, I measured what I have w/o the fittings and its 2-1/4" almost exactly the same as the ball valve w/o nipples, and IF I realy needed to, I could cut the pipe above and remove a pc and then use a 3/4 repair coupling, right ?
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Author:
cvcman
im just not sure about that brass coupling, does the femal end stay on the pc that is stubbed out from the wall ??
How much do you think a plumber would charge me to do it ??
Would the old fitting come apart ?
Or again am I better leaving this alone and putting a ball valve ABOVE this ?
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
it's not a coupling !
it's an "adapter union street ell" otherwise known as "a service ell"...... a threaded union/flare nut and a street ell combined into one fitting !
you unscrew the union bonnet nut or flare nut (clockwise while facing wall) and then unscrew the valve (with one union half still attached) from the 'sweat' adapter (remove the valve bonnet and you WILL have clearance for the 'swing')..... install the union half on the new valve reinstall assembly(valve open w/ handle up)....
1/2 hour max for any competant plumber .... will probably charge a 1 hour minimum .... ?going rate?
- - - - - - -
Measure twice, cut once.
Retired Plumbers Local Union #1
Edited 4 times.
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Author:
cvcman
ok, so IF I do it myself do these " parts" come apart fairly easy ??
If I pay the plumber cash would it be under 100.00 do you think ? The valve is 10.00 at the plumbing supply
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Author:
cvcman
what are the adapters called at the very top of this pic ? It looks like a bonnet but has a olt thur the top flange ? They used them where they attached to the meter
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Author:
packy
make sure to use two wrenches when tightening/untightening onto the male adapter.
if the new valve is too long to fit, don't worry. the fitting just above the male adapter can be easily removed and the tubing shortened. the fitting is some sort of a compression adapter with a bolt to tighten so it won't pull apart.
962QBGk~$(KGrHqF,!hcEyryC+nV-BMrKgZ)HP!~~_35.JPG)
see the nut marked CTS? if you loosen the set screw that nut will unscrew. there is an'O' ring type washer beneath it. if you loosen that nut, you can work from the top and bottom of the old/new valve.so, if you need to, you can shorten the copper going into that nut and not have to solder anything.
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Author:
cvcman
humm well the plunber is going to look a it tomorrow and if its like 75.00 i will just have him do it and give him cash...im pretty sure I could do it but,,,
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Author:
hj
I thought we have already gone through this.
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Author:
hj
My picture stops at the globe valve so I do not know what you are referring to.
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
hj
75.00 will be just about what it costs to start my truck, but NOT do the job.
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Author:
cvcman
75.00 to start your truck.....guess I wont hire you for this half hour job  I only posted one pic but at the very top of the pic is the same tyo fitting posted below that he said is a compression fitting with a pinch bolt..
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Author:
jimmy-o (CA)
I will do it for a half hours labor IF you bring it to me. If you expect me to come to you...then expect to pay for my time coming and going.
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Author:
cvcman
humm....well lucky for me this guy lives 2 minutes away, so even with gas at 3.89 a gallon I still think he can start his truck for less than 75.00 he eats lunch everyday 2 blocks away...He could probably walk here
I really think I could do it myself anyway, I like doing this type of thing but just dont want to run into trouble with the fittings not coming apart etc...
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Author:
hj
quote; 75.00 to start your truck.....
A customer once complained to my boss that I charged him for a full hour, ($75.00 at the time), when I was only there about 10 minutes. When the boss, who knew better, asked me about it, I told the customer that my fee was $75.00 as soon as the truck started and covered the first hour portal to portal.
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Author:
hj
And if he does not have a "minimum" charge and just charges you for the 15 minutes he is there, then he is going broke, but doesn't know it yet.
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Author:
Paul48 (CT)
I'm usually pretty good at finding things on the internet. Can someone tell me where I would find that fitting? I'd like to look at it without a ground strap in the way.
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Author:
cvcman
it looks like a 90 coming off the bottom of the valve and the bonnet nut must stay with the pc stubbed out from the wall. The fitting above the valva that you can hardly see is weird too, its the one someone posted below my pic, so I assume if I loosen that pinch bolt and unscrew the nut it is just a compression fitting so I can slide the 3/4" copper in or out ??
I wonder if I monkey with that if im asking for a leak ??
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
deleted due to my stupidity and false pride
- - - - - - -
Measure twice, cut once.
Retired Plumbers Local Union #1
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
Paul48 (CT)
After a week, the landlord would commit suicide.
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Author:
cvcman
bernabeu, i will file your advise where it belongs, in the trash
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
deleted
- - - - - - -
Measure twice, cut once.
Retired Plumbers Local Union #1
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
packy
yes, the 3/4 copper can be slid in and out. this fitting is what the meter horn installers use so they won't have to solder anything.
i have taken a fair number of those "compression" fittings apart and never had a problem with a leak. grease things up before re-assembly.
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Author:
cvcman
bernabeu, much better and I DO have basic know how and am a tool and die maker by trade. I may ask alot of questions to be sure before I tackle something but dont confuse this with lack of know how..Its not rocket science here its a couple fittings...
I like doing things myself because I am super fussy and most times I hire something they do a hack job, not always but it seems like most times evryone is in such a big hurry they dont do it right.
If he tells me 100.00 cash I will tell him to do it..if its 200.00 ill do it myself as I feel 200.00 would be taking advantage of me for a half hour job !
Remember, its nice to be important, but its more imprtant to be nice !
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Author:
cvcman
ok he just left, 65.00 cash i buy the valve
will be done Friday at 8:30
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Author:
hj
quote; most times I hire something they do a hack job,
Then YOU are hiring the wrong people, possibly because they are charging $100.00 for a $200.00 job.
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Author:
hj
$65.00 cash and he is making two trips, one to look at it and one to do the job. My prices do not change whether it is cash or check.
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Author:
cvcman
humm well its usually the big company people I have more problems example; I hired a large heating co to install a Thermopride oil furnace, i didnt price shop it because they have a good rep in this area...
First off they did a horrible job on the plenum transition, just sloppy...then I paid them, they left and I was dumping the trash they left and I see a bg full of rock wool insulation.
I read the instructions and it says " very important that this insulation is installed around the burner tube to prevent burnout" guess what, I removed the panel and not one drop of insulation was used....
I then noticed 3 fitting were leaking/dripping oil.....I did call them and complain and they said " oh we never install that wol" I called ThermoPride and they said IF it is nt used any warranty on the burner is void !
Then we hired a huge company in NY to blow in fiberglass insulatio in the attic, I told them I wanted 18" and it was a 1600 sf attic so I know how many bags the manufacturer said it would take, they used half the amt of bas and when I went in the attic I see they heaped it up to 18" where the measuring sticks were but then down to 6" for the rest !
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Author:
cvcman
again, he lives 5 minutes away, he stopped by on his way home, he COULD walk here, by the looks of his van he may be better off...
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Author:
NICK (CA)
You are right cvc, a lot of people dont care and seldom do the job to expectations. All they care about is getting paid. This is why I dont ever take a penny for a job in advance and don't bill customers when I finish the job. A lot of times I dont even send a customer the bill for a few months. I do this just to show I'm not like that and I want to be sure they are happy. The couple of times I've hired people to do things at my home I've been very unhappy. All they wanted was to get paid, and I guess they didn't want a referral. I usually do all my own stuff, that's why it doesnt get done a lot of the times. Don't get me wrong, there are good people out there and I keep their contact when I find them, but a lot of them just dont care. A lot of my jobs are fixing other people's screw-ups. I'm sure that's how it is for a lot of you guys.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
deleted
- - - - - - -
Measure twice, cut once.
Retired Plumbers Local Union #1
Edited 3 times.
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Author:
hj
You are equating size with quality. Most "big" companies have a huge advertising budget, and other overhead, which has to be absorbed by their pricing structure. Then, if the employees are on an "incentive plan" where a large part of their pay is based on how quickly they can complete the job, or how much "extra" stuff they can sell, then they will usually cut corners on the mundane things that do not pay them extra. Their "good" reputations can come from "spin doctors" or the fact that they try to do a "volume" of work so that there are more acceptable jobs than screwups.
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Author:
hj
A radiator union will NOT work with the flare nut on the customer's elbow.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
deleted 
- - - - - - -
Measure twice, cut once.
Retired Plumbers Local Union #1
Edited 7 times.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
hj;
- - - - - - -
Measure twice, cut once.
Retired Plumbers Local Union #1
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
hj
We would have to see a "side view" to tell whether that is a sweat union elbow, or a flared male adapter 90, which which would be my bet, since I have never seen a sweat union x male 90.
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Author:
hj
It would also have to be a socket/sweat inlet, NOT an ips thread like that one.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
? pray tell, exactly WHERE is the flare ?
! evidently up my own kazoo !
- - - - - - -
Measure twice, cut once.
Retired Plumbers Local Union #1
Edited 3 times.
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Author:
hj
quote; pray tell, exactly WHERE is the flare ?
Do you know what a flare nut looks like? IF we could see the "nut" from the side, we could tell whether it is a flare nut, which I suspect, or a union nut. Our inspectors WANT the ground clamp on a solder fitting, NOT on the tubing itself, because that is where the metal is thicker.
Edited 3 times.
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Author:
SwimRunPlumb (MI)
My vote is also for flare. It certainly appears to be what we call a "service elbow", which we install on every house we do(unless of course I am in a city that installs their own service el combination shut off valve and then steals my copper).
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Author:
SwimRunPlumb (MI)
quote; pray tell, exactly WHERE is the flare ?
Um....you don't actually see the flare since it is compressed between the two pieces of the service elbow.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
after really magnifying the OP's image i see where it maybe could be a 'short' or forged flare nut
however the sides look parallel to me
look at 9:00 and you will see the nut is VERY short
perhaps i have actually learned something
"service elbow" by mueller?:
H-15530 Quarter bend Coupling - copper flare nut X M.I.P.
[www.muellerflo.com] (look at 6.3)
YEP, I LEARNED SOMETHING, now i actually do know it all
- - - - - - -
Measure twice, cut once.
Retired Plumbers Local Union #1
Edited 5 times.
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Author:
cvcman
im not sure what it is but he said he isnt going to take that part off anyway, he is going to take the top pc off then unscrew the valve from the male thread part of the lower 90 ??? He seemed to know what he was talking about...we shall see
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Author:
hj
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
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Author:
hj
NOW, that is a literal answer, to a retorical question.
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Author:
cvcman
Well its done, he didn't take apart that lower bonnet nut he just loosened the compression fitting and then unscrewed the old valve from the lower 90 and used a pc of 3/4" pvc instead of the copper coming out of the compression.
We don't see any drips or leaks so....
On to another project..
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Author:
hj
quote; and used a pc of 3/4" pvc instead of the copper coming out of the compression.
And you REALLY think that is the way a professional would do it. He should know that PVC is not permitted, and is a bad idea anyway, inside a house, ESPECIALLY if it has a thread on it. How about a picture of the repair.
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Author:
cvcman
he uses it all the tme he said ??? Hang on i get a pic
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Author:
cvcman
its cpvc sorry, and he told me if I ever use it get this certin brand that he buys at HEP dont use the brand they sell at our ACE, I forgot the brand name he said but he said it will outlast copper....He is a plumber by trade so I took his word for it...he said the stuff he buys is much thicker than Ace brand...
Pic on the way
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Author:
cvcman
here it is;
[i147.photobucket.com]
Im hoping you guys dont tell me he did it wrong......I knew I should have done this myself
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Author:
hj
quote; ...he said the stuff he buys is much thicker than Ace brand...
If that were true, then it would mean HIS pipe is "smaller" inside that Ace's, but since ALL CPVC of the same schedule is made to the same standards with a wall thickness of 0.113" it is also not a true statement.
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Author:
hj
qutoe; I knew I should have done this myself
Or got someone who was not so inexpensive.
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