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 Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: emergencyfan (SC)

When we built our house, we had the plumber rough in a 2nd bathroom that we eventually planned to finish ourselves. Fast forward 2 years and we're ready to start work, however, I just realized that the plumbers installed the toilet flange tight to the plywood subfloor which leaves no room for the cement board or tile underneath the flange. Is there some sort of above-floor extension available for this type of problem? It is a 2nd floor bathroom so getting underneath to cut and add another piece to the pipe isn't an option w/o ripping out the 1st floor ceiling--something I would REALLY like to avoid. Thanks!





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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: packy (MA)

not to worry. lots of extension kits available. just make sure the long bolts are solid brass, not plated steel. this is one example...

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: emergencyfan (SC)

Great, thanks so much! That's a load off my mind! Now that I know the name of the part (thanks to you), I've been able to find the rest of the info I needed on the net (that they come in different sizes, that it's okay to stack them if necessary, etc).

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: waukeshaplumbing (WI)

its very common on new homes to have the homeowner upgrade to tile after im done roughing in the bathroom for vinyl...i just double wax ring it...ive never had any call backs..seems to work well..i have seen some extenders leak if the sewers back up...make sure if you go that route that it has a good gasket...i had a ceiling damage job last year where it didnt hold...when the sewer backed up it just poured out the toilet flange extension

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: North Carolina Plumber (NC)

You need to use silicon or wax between the flange and the spacer.

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: emergencyfan (SC)

I was told that the flange should always be on top of the finished floor. Is this incorrect?

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: emergencyfan (SC)

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying I should sandwich a wax ring between the original flange and the extender? I only need about an inch to accommodate the thickness of the tile and cement board.

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: Shoemaker2 (MA)

It is best on top of FF but it is not imperative. You don't want wax between spacers, Wauk. said you could double up two wax rings. Someone else said to silicone between the extenders then use the wax on top of that. If the extenders have built in seals you wont need silicone, but it wouldn't hurt anything either. Can also try unscrew the flange from the plywood and lifting it up as much as you need to be then putting spacers under it before re-screwing to the floor.

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: packy (MA)

if you put wax between the extension piece/s and the existing flange, you just smear a little wax, don't use a whole ring.

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: bernabeu (SC)

Quote

"Author: emergencyfan (SC)
I was told that the flange should always be on top of the finished floor. Is this incorrect?"
[END QUOTE]

No, this is not incorrect!
The bottom of the flange should rest on top of the finished floor .. also, the flange should be bolted solidly to the sub-floor !!

From a DIY web-site:
"Flange sits on top of the finished floor

For those of us who aren't up to our elbows in a toilet rehab it might be useful to look at how a toilet should be set. In new construction, the plumber roughs in the soil pipe to the floor of the bathroom where the toilet eventually will be placed.

After the builder has installed the finished floor, the plumber (in this case, you) returns to complete the job. The next step is putting on a closet flange. One end fits over the soil pipe and is glued in place, assuming your house is plumbed with PVC. The other end of the flange is a metal or plastic collar that sits on top of the finished floor.

The flange is secured to the floor with stainless steel screws long enough to bite into the subflooring.

Closet bolts--typically one on each side--are inserted into the closet flange. Next comes a wax ring, which can be pressed onto the bottom of the toilet or on top of the flange, and then the toilet bowl itself."





IMO: Your existing flange can be cut off (from above) with an internal cutter, then a new flange would be installed at the proper elevation ! DO IT RIGHT AND FORGET ABOUT IT

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Retired U.A. Local 1 & Local 638
~ Measure Twice & Cut Once ~ ~ Eight 4 Eight ~



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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: chadschloss78 (MI)

what if your finished floor is not tile and it is laminate or vynal? some of those manufacturers are specing them for bathroom installs and say that nothing should be attached to a floating floor? Tile will not work in my bath that I am renovating and was thinking of going with one of those. Would it be better then to just install a spacer?

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: SwimRunPlumb (MI)

A homeowner absolutely does NOT need to cut off the flange and raise it up when there are other perfectly suitable alternatives. I would not even cut the flange off to raise it. Flange extender or thicker wax ring.

Your union membership is making itself crystal clear.

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: packy (MA)

if installed and sealed properly, an extension flange kit is a perfectly viable solution.
absolutely no need to have a customer spend hundreds of dollars to remove and replace the entire flange.
geesh, weren't things simpler when we had cast iron flanges with a poured lead joint?

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: bernabeu (SC)

"Your union membership is making itself crystal clear."

Yep, sure is, I am retired with a good pension + Soc. Sec. and absolutely no $$$ worries.

Raising the flange to the proper elevation (assumung PVC pipe) is a 30-45 minute job including set up and clean up time. Probably cost about $150.00 for a service plumbing call assuming a 1 hour minimum.

the 'fancy' $15 tool required to make cut from above:


available from: [www.lowes.com]

(+ any electric drill - corded or battery)

ps. many many local codes REQUIRE the proper (on finished floor) installation

TRY THIS FIX:



available from: [www.plumbingsupply.com]

REMEMBER: "Easier installation that other flanges - simply push in and FASTEN TO FLOOR"

- don't forget to bolt-er-down

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Retired U.A. Local 1 & Local 638
~ Measure Twice & Cut Once ~ ~ Eight 4 Eight ~



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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: bernabeu (SC)

"Author: chadschloss78 (MI)
what if your finished floor is not tile and it is laminate or vynal? some of those manufacturers are specing them for bathroom installs and say that nothing should be attached to a floating floor? Tile will not work in my bath that I am renovating and was thinking of going with one of those. Would it be better then to just install a spacer?"

How will you secure a toilet to a floating floor w/o securing the floor under the toilet?
Should the toilet be left 'loose' so it can float along with the floor?

ALL THESE PROBLEMS GO AWAY WITH A PROPERLY INSTALLED AND SECURED FLANGE

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Retired U.A. Local 1 & Local 638
~ Measure Twice & Cut Once ~ ~ Eight 4 Eight ~

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: chadschloss78 (MI)

you didn't offer any advice on my question. you just said to do it correctly..
I was asking how to secure the flange. everyone says attach to finish floor. if i attach it to the finished floor, which may be a floating floor, it will not float like designed to do. If I attach the flange directly to the 3/4" subfloor, the flange will not be proper height and I would probably have to use a spacer. has anyone secured a flange to floating laminate flooring?

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: Paul48 (CT)

Please show me a laminate floor designed to handle wet applications.Some are better than others, but I don't know of any that are good.Brings to mind my daughter-in-law running out of my bathroom saying "your toilet is exploding", as the toilet over-flowed all over the floor. It would be at that point, that your laminate floor would be scrap.



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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: chadschloss78 (MI)

look up dupont realtouch elite flooring. that is one brand that says it can be installed in bathrooms with proper precautionary measures like 100% silicone on the transitions and where the floor meets the tub/walls. another option is vynal click together sheeting that is 100% waterproof from trafficmaster allure ultra line. also a floating floor.

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: Paul48 (CT)

I'll stick to the old reliables when it comes to the bath."Floating" floor is a distinct possibility.I'll build it to withstand a direct nuclear blast.It'll take more time to lay the floor, but it will be as solid as a rock for decades. It will stand up to sanitizing with bleach-based cleaners, and my family will not get sick from mold.

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: bernabeu (SC)

you do not bolt the flange to the finish floor ... you bolt it to the sub-floor THROUGH the finish floor

the flange must be PERMANENTLY FIXED TO STRUCTURE or else the toilet is 'floating' on the pipe

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Retired U.A. Local 1 & Local 638
~ Measure Twice & Cut Once ~ ~ Eight 4 Eight ~

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: chadschloss78 (MI)

again, i know that. did you think that i was going to mount the flange with 1/4" wood screws?!? you still did not answer the question. MAYBE IF I TYPE LIKE THIS YOU WILL UNDERSTAND...

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: packy (MA)

i've done a few toilets set on floating floor. i used long screws down into the sub floor.
never heard back from anyone about them.
no news is good news

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: bernabeu (SC)

DOH


enjoy your McMansion

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Retired U.A. Local 1 & Local 638
~ Measure Twice & Cut Once ~ ~ Eight 4 Eight ~

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: chadschloss78 (MI)

Thanks Packy :)

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: jerco (MD)

I do what you do Packy. I feel bad about it though. Floating floors and toilets don't mix if ya ask me.

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: bernabeu (SC)

after you bolt down the flange properly that area of floor no longer floats

not a problem providing the installer left the proper expansion room at the wall/sides/ends (and hopefully removed the spacers before tacking on the 'shoe' molding)

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Retired U.A. Local 1 & Local 638
~ Measure Twice & Cut Once ~ ~ Eight 4 Eight ~

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 Re: Toilet flange on subfloor
Author: Innovation Tool (FL)

[www.innovationtool.net]

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