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 Shower Head and Tub Spout - water coming out of both
Author: robertlennie (MI)

Hi - I installed a American Standard Reliant 3 Shower Faucet - the kind that has a tub diverter to make the shower head come on.

I have made all the connections, and when I turn on the faucet, water comes out of both the tub spout and the shower head. I can use the diverter to make it only come out of the Shower Head.

I have tried installing a new cartridge (the part that all the connections are made by threaded 1/2" NPTs). Still the same problem.

It was suggested to me that I may have Too much water coming to the faucet - which seems a bit lame. I want as much pressure as my 1/2" supplies can give me ;)

Any thoughts on what might cause the water come out of both spots?

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 Re: Shower Head and Tub Spout - water coming out of both
Author: jimmy-o (CA)

First question....what type of piping is used to connect from the shower valve down to the spout?

► If it is PEX or CPVC, that is the problem. It MUST be copper, or 1/2" threaded brass tubing.

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 Re: Shower Head and Tub Spout - water coming out of both
Author: robertlennie (MI)

Yup - it's PEX alright. So I need to ONLY replace the PEX that goes down to the TUB?





Edited 1 times.

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 Re: Shower Head and Tub Spout - water coming out of both
Author: SMSPlumbing (PA)

I would repipe with copper to the spout. The only way that water will go to the shower head is if there is something stopping it from going down. Either the spout is partially closed or something in the line going to the spout or something at the bottom of the valve. But even with pex it should still work if there is nothing stopping the water.

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 Re: Shower Head and Tub Spout - water coming out of both
Author: hj (AZ)

quote; But even with pex it should still work if there is nothing stopping the water.

Wrong! The smaller bore of PEX or CPVC, because they are CTS but with thicker walls, CREATES the restriction causing his problem.

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 Re: Shower Head and Tub Spout - water coming out of both
Author: SMSPlumbing (PA)

hj I know they can cause similar problems, but I have worked on many mobile homes and older homes that used quest and pex and dont have this problem. But I see what you mean about the wall thickness and how it could cause it.

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 Re: Shower Head and Tub Spout - water coming out of both
Author: hj (AZ)

The manufacturers SPECIFICALLY instruct NOT to use any CTS plastic material for the spout connection. Besides the smaller tubing bore, the insert fittings also create a massive back pressure.

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 Re: Shower Head and Tub Spout - water coming out of both
Author: LemonPlumber (FL)

You may find as always,give or take HJ is correct.But try a delta pull down divertor spout fist.If wall entry is other wise caused.It may only be a few pounds of back pressure at the spout,in some cases,.Simply remove your current spout and test to confirm.As said the drop pipe will be a factor.

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 Re: Shower Head and Tub Spout - water coming out of both
Author: robertlennie (MI)

Thanks for the advice guys.

The installation instructions did not mention anything about not using PEX - but it certainly is easy enough to test out. I will replace the PEX from the cartridge to the tub and see if that help at all. I replaced the PEX once already - thinking I made a connection to restrictive or something - but I see the point about the bore size and will report back tomorrow. Thanks again.

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 Re: Shower Head and Tub Spout - water coming out of both
Author: North Carolina Plumber (NC)

About 99% of the time, replacing the pex with copper will fix the problem.

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 Re: Shower Head and Tub Spout - water coming out of both
Author: Fixitangel (NC)

Here's another link to your pic:
[www.flickr.com]
I agree with others; run the tub spout in copper or brass to reduce back-pressure.



Edited 2 times.

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 Re: Shower Head and Tub Spout - water coming out of both
Author: PlumberManDan (IA)

So many things wrong with this install, PEX from the valve to the tub spout ABSOLUTELY NOT, EVER. You could have saved 2 90 ell ftgs and 4 cinch rings by running from the coupling to the IPS ftg at the valve every ftg you have just decreases the volume of water available at the valve.

PlumbCat TM 2003


Plumbermandan

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 Re: Shower Head and Tub Spout - water coming out of both
Author: mpscheiner (CA)

Is the valve upside down?

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 Re: Shower Head and Tub Spout - water coming out of both
Author: vic (CA)

I recommend that you install a twin ell:





[www.plumbingsupply.com]

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 Re: Shower Head and Tub Spout - water coming out of both
Author: jimmy-o (CA)

Thanks for the photo...yes the only piece of pipe at issue is the down tube to the spout.
What brand is the shower valve? These days most of the major brands include that caveat in the install instructions.


By the way, the valve must be supported. You need to have a board or other bracket put in to screw the valve to. Leaving it floating like that will lead to damage as the thing flops around with usage.

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 Re: Shower Head and Tub Spout - water coming out of both
Author: jerco (MD)

A twin ell ??? That would be like cutting off your toes because your shoes don't fit anymore. It will work but ...

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 Re: Shower Head and Tub Spout - water coming out of both
Author: hj (AZ)

Or making the basket larger because you cannot shoot through a regular one.

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 Re: Shower Head and Tub Spout - water coming out of both
Author: ZEUMER (NC)

I recently did a job to stop this very thing and, in fact, the valve was upside down and these people had been living with water coming out both faucet and shower for OVER TEN YEARS! And I had to cut an access panel in the wall behind the built-in range to get to it (I won't mention what was in the cabinet base under this drop-in range). You'll laugh but because they wanted to keep the existing three handle set (old ceramic tile tub surround with period matching fixtures) and because the water lines came down from the ceiling (which is why the faucet set was upside down to begin with) I piped in copper from the shower head port on the bottom up to the shower head line and from the tub spout port on the top down to the tub spout. I should have taken a picture, lots of 45's and 90's. I offered to instead, put in a tub spout with a pull-up stop, but they wanted their period set.

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 Re: Shower Head and Tub Spout - water coming out of both
Author: dlh (TX)

thats a lot of work . why didnt you just remove the valve and put back the correct way?

- - - - - - -

PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"

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 Re: Shower Head and Tub Spout - water coming out of both
Author: ZEUMER (NC)

because this 3 handle valve set came designed for water lines fed from the bottom and this was a water lines fed from the top situation. so the original plumber installed the valve set upside down which put the shower port on the bottom and the tub port on the top. to keep the valve i had to re-route 2 lines one way or another. shower and tub lines were easier.

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 Re: Shower Head and Tub Spout - water coming out of both
Author: eddykc03 (OH)

First off, let me thank the members of this forum for helping me diagnose my plumbing issues. After a complete remodel of my bathroom, which included replacing old 1/2" copper lines with 1/2" PEX, I too, had the problem of water coming out of the shower head when only the tub faucet was supposed to be in use. Based on the responses from the forum, it appeared that there was too much back pressure between the tub faucet and shower valve. I was prepared to replace this valve-to-tub connection with copper as suggested, but came up with another PEX solution that worked perfectly for me. I simply upgraded to 3/4" PEX for that single connection. I added a 1/2" to 3/4" bushing to the valve, then ran the 3/4" PEX to the faucet. After making this change, no more shower head leakage. I thought I'd throw in my two cents for other DIYers looking for a cheap and easy solution.

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