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Author:
flm (TX)
Greetings,
I'm experiencing a situation that has me flummoxed. I have two bathtubs, both of which have been plumbed with PVC drain pipes and lift and turn drains. Both make an extremely LOUD gurgling noise when draining.
This does not seem like a venting problem. The tubs drain quite fast and there is a whirlpool at the drain, indicating that there is good drainage. This is a new construction house and there is zero chance of the vents being clogged. I have verified this personally.
If anything, it sounds like the water is draining TOO FAST and it's creating a Bernoulli effect (similar to an eductor), and the water is looking for air anywhere, including the overflow, which is where most of the noise is coming from.
I am considering adding an AAV tied to a tee. The theory is that the Studor Vent will allow more air to enter, particularly before the overflow. But my plumber swears that this will not fix the problem. He is convinced that there is plenty of air, the vent is clear as a whistle. It's not starving for air.
So my working theory at this point is this: I need to find a way to restrict the drain somehow. The problem is the lift and turn valve. If we could restrict the waterflow just a little bit, it would slow down the water going down the drain and stop the gurgling.
Does anybody know of an adjustable "lift and turn" style valve that I could install? It seems like something like that ought to exist.
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Author:
hj
Gurgling is the sound I look for to tell me the drain is working as fast as it can. The water is draining so quickly that it is aspirating air down the overflow pipe, which causes the sound. When it is not gurgling, then it often means the drain is getting plugged and the water is slowing down.
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Author:
waukeshaplumbing (WI)
whats the problem? it works too well? is that really a problem?
once in a while the piping is such that i see that effect on tubs also... ive never had a complaint about it...more like a 'thank you'
some how it is causing a vacuum and sucking your water down fast.
dont complain...be happy...give your plumber a tip
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Author:
steve_g (CA)
I agree with the others that it's the sound of success. One clogged drain and you'll be yearning for that sound.
But if it's really annoying, see if you can find a hair catcher that'll fit under the stopper (it may have to be customized).
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Author:
ramplum (CA)
Since the overflow is nor required by code or a constant function, try using a plug in the port just behind the coverplate. Also lift and turn arent adj. push & pull stoppers are they come in 5/16 & 3/8 post threads from eastman! you can lift half way or all the way.
let me know... ramonasplumber
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Author:
flm (TX)
Thanks for the suggestion on the push & pull stopper. That's definitely something I'm going to have to look at.
As option #1, here's what we've come up with as a "custom" solution. We took the pin on the lift and turn valve and we've had a machine shop put in threads almost all the way down. So now we should have "control" over how open the drain gets. We've basically turned the lift and turn valve into a partial screwdown, which should allow us to modify the speed at which we drain. Remember this is a new construction house, and there will not be "clogged drain" issues for years.
Those of you that said that I should just "live with" the gurgling sound and that it is actually a sign of good flow, I hear what you are saying, but you didn't actually answer the question and address the problem. I too am happy that I have excellent flow, but I should not have to also deal with loud noise. Those of you that have built or worked on seven figure custom homes I'm sure can understand what I am talking about. The customer is always right.
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Author:
hj
I guess what you are saying is that we should NOT install the drains so they work as good as possible. We install the tub drain fitting the way the manufacturer constructs it. It is NOT up to us to modify it to make you happy. And if we modify it and you are NOT happy with the results, I am sure you would expect US to "unmodify" it so it worked the way it did originally. The customer is always right, ONLY as long as we want him for a customer. NOT ALL customers are desirable.
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Author:
flm (TX)
Apparently, hj, you like to be rhetorical. Perhaps you like the sound of your own voice. Since you appear to want to talk about something other than the point I made, let me briefly address your issue and then move on to the finish-out of my new home. Since I have basically solved my problem (thanks again for the help) and don't have the time to engage in a long back-and-forth on a relatively minor issue, this will be my only comment on the matter.
First of all, I have respect for professionals and professionalism. You know, the kind of people who have a "can do" mentality and who focus on solutions, not the type of people who constantly whine and complain. The kind of people who can read an owners manual about a product from China and know when and where they can modify something that is not only 1.) Perfectly safe but 2.) Up to code and 3.) Satisfies the customer. The solutions being discussed meet all three requirements.
If I wanted somebody who can ONLY follow the instructions on how to install something EXACTLY as the manufacturer says, and does not know how to use his or her professional discretion, I would hire somebody like that, or perhaps a robot.
I still consider plumbing to be a PROFESSION, which means that I like working with people with improvisational skills who welcome a challenge and know the difference between a high-end custom home and the rinky-dink townhomes and condos that high-volume developers build everywhere to the lowest standards allowable.
I have similar expectations of the electrical profession, as well as carpenters, or any profession for that matter.
Besides, given the ridiculous lack of QA that characterizes many of the products from China, it is not entirely clear that it is safe to install something according to the manufacturer's instructions anyhow. Caveat Emptor is and remains one of the golden rules of homebuilding, not just homebuying.
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Author:
waukeshaplumbing (WI)
I have worked on $3,000,000 houses a few times...most of mine lately are $500,000 range...I have always found rich people to be great customers who are very understanding...i find the bad customers to be the cheap ones who expect perfection at the lowest price.
I would explain to the customer that the drain is working extremely well and the sucking noise is part of it.
you could pour some kitchen grease down the drain to slow it down some??
Ive heard the sucking drains maybe 10x in my career...they are a bit loud, but i think far from something id complain about if i knew it was working extra well....id learn to like the noise..
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Author:
Shoemaker2 (MA)
I can understand what the man is saying because these same type of people want the cast iron drain stacks so they can't hear the drains and they insulate all the interior wall so no sound will travel. I have dealt with them before and will do what the want me to do even though I would not in my own home which i think is much nicer to be in than there McMansions. I figure to each his own and if I can do something to make them happy I will. I would probably in this matter just put a piece of cut to fit air filter in the overflow to deaden the sound without blocking the overflow from working if needed. Or maybe just turn up the built in speaker a bit. 
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Author:
waukeshaplumbing (WI)
i like that idea...it would probably work....but if it got wet would it get moldy and smelly?
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Author:
Shoemaker2 (MA)
They are anti-microbial usually so it shouldn't
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Author:
hj
And you seem to be like a customer who would expect the plumber to modify an item which YOU supplied, and if you did not like the modification would expect him to correct it to your satisfaction. I will do whatever a customer asks, as long as he realizes that there is NO problem, and is willing to pay for whatever time and material it takes. Once they know that it is going to cost at least $100.00 an hour for the cure, they usually decide that it really is NOT a problem.
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Author:
Fixitangel (NC)
1. Try earplugs. They work faster than bacon grease in the drain.
2. Ease off on the coke. Seriously.
3. Try audio-therapy. Open the windows and listen to birds singing and thunderstorms. With nature's help, you may be able to overcome this "problem".
4. How do you "cope" with toilet gurgling? Or are your toilets gurgle-free?
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Author:
steve (CA)
to be connected if the fixture manufacturer has provided one.
2007 CPC - 403.0
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