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Author:
caelum (CA)
Hi all! We're wondering about a possible sewer line problem. We've had some serious problems with tree roots getting into the sewer pipes, and in the past week we've replaced a few sections of pipe in our yard. After that, they discovered that there were even more roots farther along on the pipe (in the section under the street). So we had them hydrojet that to clear it out, and it looks good.
However, the plumber says that there is a dislocation in the pipes (they are old clay) and that water will seep out of the pipe into the ground below, making it muddy. He said that this is a serious problem, because it means the entire pipe (and possibly the street above) could collapse, in which case it would be a huge pain (and huge expense) to repair it.
So he is recommending we get an epoxy lining inserted in the pipe (also to prevent the roots from coming back, although we don't mind having it cleared out every so often). This is still a pretty substantial expense. So I am wondering if anyone knows how big the risk of a collapsing pipe really is? It seems to us like the pipe was most likely like this for quite a long time, so is anything likely to happen in the near future?
Thanks!
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Author:
North Carolina Plumber (NC)
I wouldn't be too concerned about the street caving in, however if water can get out roots can get in. I'd want to see a video of the pipe in question before making a final decision.
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Author:
Shoemaker2 (MA)
Can the pipe be replaced and rerouted to avoid the tree and it's roots?
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Author:
Rick Laser (CA)
I have always wondered - how do the roots get into the pipes? Are the roots strong enough to burst a hole right through the walls of a pipe?
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Author:
packy
i like the advice north carolina plumber is giving..
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Author:
caelum (CA)
Thanks for the feedback!
Yes, they said the roots will get back in - but if we continue to clear it out periodically, we can keep things moving. That's $600/year, as opposed to $6000 to line the pipe.
My understanding is that the roots get in through small cracks, and then force even larger cracks, but I'm not a professional.
Our yard has eight huge oak trees, so I think there will be roots anywhere if we try to move the pipes. The current claim is that it will be cheaper to fix the pipe now than to replace it entirely if it gets worse.
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Author:
packy
throwing some root killer into the pipe once a month might keep the roots from growing.
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Author:
Doug E. (CA)
yes, plumbing repair is expensive....but say a month or more down the road the pipe does collapse and you can't use the bathrooms. What are your "opportunity" costs now? I would not pay to reline the pipe. I would get three estimates on a new sewer repipe. And if trees have to be cut down then so it goes. Most of the cost is going to be the excavation so you could consider having a tractor guy bid that part of the job and then have a licensed plumber lay the pipe and make the connections. Good luck and it would be cool to hear how this plumbing story turns out.
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Author:
Wheelchair
A live video of your sewer line and a copy of the tape for your records.
Expoxy coating is just one avenue
Pipe relining is another avenue.
However, if no solid material is there, expoxy or relining can not be considered.
A copy of a live video run will show you the interior and the foot markers where the defaults and defects are... if they are truly present.
Best Wishes
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
dlh (TX)
think about it, you have a good chance of paying $6000 in the next ten yars but you will also have to keep dealing with the problem. and then spend the money on top of all that so now a $6000 repair took 10 years to get to a point of worrying about it but you spent $6000 keeping it cleared and now because things are more expensive 10 years from now it will cost you $7000-$8000 or more plus the $6000 you had spent over the 10 years and all the headaches associated with the problem
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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"
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Author:
PlumerDan (CA)
in san jose if you have a curd side clean out,they come and jet or whatever it takes to fix "thier" pipe in the street.if not you need a video with foot reading on it to prove it's a street problum.the root killer that packy recomends works really well right after the roots have been cut and are "raw" to the chemicals.i hope you have a front c/o up by the house. also where are you at in ca. most sewers are farily shallow and the digging charge should be affordable....good luck
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Author:
Shoemaker2 (MA)
If the pipe was replaced it would be water tight so roots couldn't get in. PCV pipe would be the way to go if you had that option.
How long of a run is it anyway?
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
hj
quote; So I am wondering if anyone knows how big the risk of a collapsing pipe really is?
The odds are so close to ZERO, that it should not even be a consideration. For one thing, the part under the street seldom has a problem, and second, they will only reline to the point where your pipe connects to the one under the street. The frequency of snaking the line is the real determination as to whether it should be relined or replaced. I, personally, would opt for replacement when that time comes, but I would NOT consider that plumber, since I think he is more concerned about making his next truck payment, than what is good for you.
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Author:
hj
They can enter the most miniscule opening with their "scout" roots. Once inside they can grow to immense size. Sometimes they can also damage the pipe connection if they can grow enough to put pressure on it. But initially, the opening they grow through is NOT large enough for water to seep out. I have had stopped up toilets in the middle of a house where the closest tree was 15 feet from the house, but the roots grew under the footing, under the foundation, under the floor to the toilet, then up around the outside of the pipe, around the flange, through the wax ring, and then into the pipe. The root that went through the wax ring would be about the size of a pencil lead, but once it got into the sewer, it would expand into a mass the size of the pipe and up to 2 feet long. In one case, the owner did not FIX the problem and just stopped using the toilet. His root continued into the pipe, up the stack, over to the lavatory, and into the sink trap. That was a job and a half to extract as much of that one as I could, since it was like a small tree.
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Author:
hj
The problem is NOT the roots, it is the pipe. If the sewer is replaced with PVC or ABS pipes, glued together not slip joints, it will not happen again.
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Author:
hj
Well, the number of times I have had to charge $600.00 for a sewer snaking is so rare I cannot remember the last one, UNLESS there is a major problem with the sewer, in which case THAT would be the reason to replace it, not the roots. I recommend to my customers that when the snaking has to be done less than once a year, then they should consider replacing it.
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Author:
hj
WIth that many trees, if I used PVC pipe it would have to be sch. 40, because I have had SDR pipes clamped off by roots growing around them.
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Author:
hj
And HOW will the tractor guy know where, or how deep, to dig? I get the tractor guy, and tell him what I want, and watch him while he does it.
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Author:
dlh (TX)
thats why i am the "tractor" guy.
i know what i want, where and ow. its much easier for me to just do it myself and keep all the monies (except for the rental of the machine)
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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"
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Author:
hj
I would rather hire the tractor guy and let his insurance cover any problems he encounters.
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Author:
caelum (CA)
Thanks for all the feedback!
We are in an unincorporated part of LA county, so we are responsible for the entire sewer lateral up to the main line (unfortunately). This may be why our guy worried more about the seepage, with the risk of earthquakes. On the other hand, it seems like an earthquake could cause all sorts of other problems, even to a new pipe.
It sounds like there is a diversity of opinions on what to do. Reading through these and other opinions, our inclination is to wait and keep an eye on the line over the next year to see how hard the maintenance of the roots is. Based on that we can try to figure out whether relining or replacing is a better option. We just moved into the house a year ago so don't have a baseline yet of how hard this really will be.
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Author:
sum (FL)
Have you checked your home owner's insurance policy to make sure this is not something that may be covered partially or fully?
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Author:
hj
Even here in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area, the section of pipe from the main to the property line is installed as part of the city sewer, BUT once it is installed, the homeowner is responsible for it all the way to the main, AND also the connection at the main, if the "Y" should crack or be damaged. The redeeming factor in this scenario, is that the "city" portion seldom is damaged or defective, although it does happen occassionally..
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Author:
hj
IT seldom covers anything outside the building's four walls. Since the only coverage is for damage done to the building either because of the problem, or to fix it, that does not apply to outdoor situations.
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