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Author:
waukeshaplumbing (WI)
i had a emergency call yesterday for a broken pipe just outside the house.
I dug up 12' of pipe from the house to the septic tank and redid it.
i was amazed to see it dropped 4"
the tank didnt settle 4", frost didnt lift it since it dropped, the ground didnt have a 4" drop around that area....
i used alot of extra gravel to bed the pipe and i put 1" foam over the top of the pipe to keep the frost from getting down that far...just trying to do everything i can to make it better...
Any ideas what causes this?
at Saturday rates I made a mint and had a nice workout.
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Author:
Shoemaker2 (MA)
Was the area around the break saturated like it had been that way a long time and finally couldn't absorb the flow anymore?
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Author:
LemonPlumber (FL)
was fill missing around the pipe and is it now in the bottom of the tank?
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Good Luck. Insulate your hot piping, although costly, it will pay you back every day.
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Author:
waukeshaplumbing (WI)
there was no gravel under the pipe next to the house...also the dirt was fluffy/powdery while the rest was clay
the part which dropped was clay and bedded
it broke right where the clay/bedded pipe switched to the fluffy soil....about 18" from the house
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Author:
dlh (TX)
the problem is the 2 distinct different soils. ill bet one expanded as the other contracted or something like that as i am not a soil expert
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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"
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Author:
waukeshaplumbing (WI)
when i backfilled it all got mixed, so along with proper bedding im sure that fixed future problems
what does everyone think about me putting 1" styrofoam over the pipe?
WI code for septic stub out is 28" below ground...frost goes to 36"
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Author:
ev607797 (VA)
My vote is for dissimilar soil types too. One is more porous than the other, causing all kinds of differentials during freezing/thawing.
As for the Styrofoam: Cold is cold and frost is frost. While this might help protect the pipe a little bit from rocks in the back fill, unless you are introducing some kind of heat source, I doubt it will have any effect. Of course, the heat of water flowing through the pipe might be contained just a little bit longer. Hey, if nothing else, when someone is digging and hits the Styrofoam, at least it will slow them down to look before they dig up the pipe. I don't see how it can hurt anything.
---Ed---
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Author:
LemonPlumber (FL)
can,t hurt any.But afoot of frozen earth under may still frost it up.
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Good Luck. Insulate your hot piping, although costly, it will pay you back every day.
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Author:
waukeshaplumbing (WI)
wouldnt the septic tank 12' away create heat?
im not saying it will be smoking hot, but i would definately think that pipe will be create some heat...along with it being 28" down i would think the styrofoam may prevent that last 12" of frost
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Author:
hj
And why SHOULDN'T it happen there, if there was nothing solid to hold the pipe once the ditch was overdug? Your gravel will keep the pipe in place, (What kind of pipe and connection was it?), but the insulation will do nothing.
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Author:
hj
Styrofoam? Nothing. If the ground freezes that deep the stryrofoam will be at the ground's freezing temperature after an hour or so.
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Author:
hj
When the ground is frozen, the ONLY way to keep a sewer from freezing is to make sure the toilets and faucets DO NOT are not leaking.
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Author:
sum (FL)
well I am glad I am on sandy soil and never frozen.
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Author:
waukeshaplumbing (WI)
the part that dropped was the part with correct back fill
the part which stayed was the part with fluffy soil...yes being 2' from the foundation definately helped...
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Author:
dlh (TX)
i figured that was the case
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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"
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Author:
hj
IF it had "correct" back fill, it could not have dropped, much less broke. "Correct" backfill is tamped so that it is almost like the original soil so there is NOWHERE for it to settle to. Settling ONLY occurs when there is a loose void under the pipe where settling can occur and take the pipe down with it. But, a proper ditch is dug to grade so there does not have to be any "fill" under it.
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
dlh (TX)
in a perfect world maybe. in my area give that pipe 20 years and the ground will have settled enough to break it. we have to over dig our ditches so we can put a bed of sand under the pipe since we have to account for up to 6" of ground movement. i guarantee that when you have a dry spell and in the summer you can fall into a crack in the ground no amount of tamping is gonna stop the pipe from breaking
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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"
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