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Author:
sum (FL)
Charlotte makes a PVC fitting that is called a DOUBLE FIXTURE FITTING (part no. 500).
It sort of looks like a double sanitary tee (part no. 429) but I understand problem with double sanitary tees is that when you snake it the snake may jump across and come back up the other way, unless you add a CO opening right there in the middle for separate access.
It is not a double wye with 1/8 bends (part no 507) as that could cause a S-trap when pipe is flowing full or near full.
Is this something that is used frequently? Is it useful? If so how come so many plumbing supply houses locally I called they don't carry this part heck they don't even know such a thing existed?
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Author:
dlh (TX)
i use them all the time for back to back toilet and sink applications and have used them for at least the last 10 years.
they arent specifically required by the upc or ipc that i know of which means that most codes probably wont require their use and might be the reason your supply houses dont carry them. if their isnt a market it would just be taking storage space
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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"
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Author:
hj
Here is it used as frequently as we have back to back fixtures, and it is a staple item. Here, you would have a hard time finding a sanitary cross to use instead of it. If they do not have the fitting, then your inspectors do NOT know their code and do not care. The snake crossing over is a side effect, since few good plumbers snake through the closet opening, (I do it about once every 4 or 5 years when there is no other way). The main problem is crossover of the sewage when it jumps across the gap.
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Author:
LemonPlumber (FL)
because we call it a sanitary cross!!!They have it.on the shelve from 4x to 1 1/2.Draw a picture of it next time you go there.Or better yet down load a picture.They will get it no matter what they think it is called.Having a full size co at or near the base of a stack is a great idea.If it cannot happen just try to be sure it vents by it's self or directly through the roof.Make the train of flow from the roof cover the lack of co.the way the snake will follow.Most qualified drain cleaners will have a drop head so it would only be a momentary draw back.
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Good Luck. Insulate your hot piping, although costly, it will pay you back every day.
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Author:
hj
I guess if you think a sanitary cross is the same as a back to back fixture fitting, then I guess you have never seen or used one either.
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Author:
dlh (TX)
that is just silly to call a fixture fitting a cross since they are 2 different things
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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"
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Author:
LemonPlumber (FL)
if neither fixture is a wet vent and they are not.why would you think to spend three times the money of something that would not work as well???dlh hj.sum is plumbing in Florida.The only thing he would gain by using that fitting on his system is a plumbing re-inspection charge.
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Good Luck. Insulate your hot piping, although costly, it will pay you back every day.
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Author:
hj
HE would have peace of mind knowing that he has done the system properly. I cannot help the mentality of your inspectors. Usually inspectors are plumbers who could not operate a business and went backrupt. Yours must be bankrupt handymen, although from Sum's description of the plumbers in Florida, they could have been plumbers.
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
dlh (TX)
what would not work as well?
why would they fail him for using a fitting designed and approved for that exact application?
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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"
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Author:
sum (FL)
I called around and no one carries it locally...and I couldn't find an online source either, except for Amazon but they have 2x1-1/2x1-1/2x1-1/2 but I need 2x2x1-1/2x1-1/2.
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Author:
hj
Why? Unless this is also the toilet's wet vent.
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Author:
dlh (TX)
just buy a complete 2" and then get a couple 2 x 1 1/2" bushing adapters
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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"
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Author:
LemonPlumber (FL)
you seem to both be missing the call for hydraulic gradient .if air does not enter the fitting it can and will not be the point of vent and as the change in direction calls for it it would be a failed point of vent if the branch arm 1 1/2" was longer than 1" and two inch would create a s -trap at it,s valued length.He is using this fitting as a wet vented fixture!!!!
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Author:
dlh (TX)
you know nothing about the fixture fittings design. it does not create an s-trap unless you run a long arm from it
IT IS NOT A DOUBLE COMBINATION !
it is in between a double combo and a cross
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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"
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Author:
hj
The fitting is DESIGNED so it does not create "S" traps, which is why it is NOT THE SAME as a double combo. Your problem is that you do not know what a b2b fitting looks like.
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
sum (FL)
because the drain below is 2" and the vent coming from above is also 2", the two sides are 1-1/2" for a double lav. So a 2x2x1-1/2x1-1/2 would be perfect or else I have to go from 1-1/2 to 2 at the top.
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Author:
sum (FL)
I couldn't find a 2x2x2x2 or 2x2x1-1/2x1-1/2 online or locally anywhere. Online I was able to locate 2x1-1/2x1-1/2x1-1/2 only.
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Author:
dlh (TX)
man am i glad i dont work in florida!
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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"
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Author:
hj
In that case you need a 2" with bushings in the side openings, because they do not make the one you need. In fact, in PVC some companies do not even show a 2" one, which is odd because you would need one for a back to back shower situation.
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
sum (FL)
hj Charlotte makes one.
I could either use the first entry (and use bushings on the sides as you and dlh suggested) or get the forth entry. However I could find no local store that carries it, as well as online sources. Even our sponsor of this forum does not carry it.
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Author:
LemonPlumber (FL)
Sums first pic line A sums second pic line B...this is where a hydraulic problem appears to me.Since at flow the drain would not be vented.after the fitting would be past the point.the fitting are very mush different thats why he can not get one here.As said if he shorted both branch arms to the minimum then only two inch would be illegally trapped.
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Good Luck. Insulate your hot piping, although costly, it will pay you back every day.
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Author:
sum (FL)
Lemon, there is also a difference in the horizontal distance A, which for a 2" sanitary tee is 2-5/16" and a double fixture fitting 3-1/2". So the DFF's branch arm is further out that I believe may create enough of a sweep to direct the flow down rather than across. I believe is you take the DFF and cut back to 2-5/16", it may be as high vertically as the sanitary tee.
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Author:
dlh (TX)
lemon, if you noticed, the start of the vent on the fitting (the upper hub part) does not go even 1/2 way down the opening for the drains (line B ) and since a drain is only designed to carry the waste on the lower 1/2 (line C) this fitting allows for air to enter the pipe (between lines B and C) unless it is more than 1/2 full which would mean it is either severely undersized or the drain is restricted
p.s. if you look at the upc 704.2 it specifically states that for a back to back fixture a fixture fitting must be used when the drain arms enter the stack at the same level
i dont know what code you follow there is FL but it doesnt seem like its either of the ones i work with
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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
hj
I am trying to interpret what you wrote, but it is very convoluted. The only way the fitting would be a violation would be if the point "B", the bottom of the upper hub, were below the bottom of the side inlets, but if that were to occur it would be a double combo, NOT a b2b fixture fitting. Vents are NOT needed during a flow situation. They are needed before AND after flow occurs, to allow the flow to start, and protect the trap seals when it stops.
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Author:
hj
Sum, you are being infected by Lemon. How would you cut the DFF back to 2 5/16" without destroying it.
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Author:
hj
Even if the lateral lines were full of water, initially, the DFF is designed so you can NEVER create the conditions conducive to siphonage. Since inspectors are usually retired plumbers or plumbing contractors who have gone bankrupt, and we know the kind of plumbers they have in Florida, according to Sum's experiences, why would we be surprised that they do not know what a b2b fixture fitting is.
Edited 1 times.
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