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 oatey sure vent problem
Author: waukeshaplumbing (WI)

i installed a Sure Vent on a remodel today. (they had a vent running through their cabinets and exposed running up the wall. it cannot go inside the wall because the whole house is made of concrete block. even most of the interior walls)

Anyways. its on a kitchen sink. when you drain the sink it makes no noise. 15 seconds after all the water is gone it starts making a motorboat noise. when you touch the Sure Vent you can feel it vibrating.
it lasts for 30 seconds. its very noticable when the doors are open, but barely noticable when the doors are closed. i installed a 2nd Sure vent just to make sure its not a defective one. same thing.

I have a call in to tech support at Oatey. if they cannot solve it they will come to the jobsite


the drain works very well. no noticable blockage. i have to think it has something to do with a blockage of some kind. maybe in the main vent?

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 Re: oatey sure vent problem
Author: redwood (CT)

How long of a drain run is it to a vented pipe, how well is it draining...

There is noting wrong with the AAV!
It is still letting in air while the water is drawing a negative pressure on the line!
Its nothing more than a case of AAV flatulence!
Live by the sword you die by the sword!:think2:

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 Re: oatey sure vent problem
Author: waukeshaplumbing (WI)

it runs 15' into a stack. the only other thing on that stack is a laundry tub another 8' from there...so 23' to a real vent. i dont know yet how plugged up that laundry tub drain may be....i will find out on the finish....

maybe the laundry tub drain is plugged and not allowing that vent to make up some of the pressures..

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 Re: oatey sure vent problem
Author: redwood (CT)

As long as water is falling in that line there will be air admitted.

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 Re: oatey sure vent problem
Author: LemonPlumber (FL)

I would increase the aav size .Did you use the 1 1/5 x 2" type?Good luck.Agree that pressure through out house /plumbing system could be at fault. plumbing system may be to blame,Or lack of draw air in structure.Hard to relieve vacuum ,when your in one.Let me know what you figure out.

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 Re: oatey sure vent problem
Author: redwood (CT)

I like vents through roofs...
They don't make noise...
they don't smell...
there is no question that they vent!

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 Re: oatey sure vent problem
Author: PlumberManDan (IA)

Just ONE of the reasons that AAV's SHOULD BE OUTLAWED, If the house was plumbed and vented properly from the start You would not be having this problem, Since it is a remodel, why not just pipe it correctly.
Get out the Main line machine, CLEAR the line and the problem should go away.

PlumbCat TM 2003


Plumbermandan



Edited 1 times.

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 Re: oatey sure vent problem
Author: waukeshaplumbing (WI)

it is the larger 20 dfu size(not the 6 dfu)

the pipes in this house are on the outside of the walls(inside the house). all the walls are concrete block in the kitchen..i cant do a loop vent because it would also be on the outside of the walls.

ill give everyone a history lesson about this house...its in the city of Greenfield which was president Roosevelts 'great idea'. in the 1940's he made 3 'Greenfield's' in 3 different states. in this beautiful 'socialist' created city he made all the houses for the masses. they are very unique...all concrete block with exposed plumbing and heating, crawlspaces instead of basements, and extremely plain and small......it was his 'vision' of what our new 'socialist' citys would look like....they are dumps in my opinion....anyways they have become popular to a select crowd and are somewhat expensive for what they are. the city has ordinances for how the exterior can look...they want to keep the beautiful 'poor socialist' charm of the houses...but the interiors are free to fix up...this house had the vent pipe runing through the inside of the cabinets and coming out the side runing up the wall accross the kitchen ceiling and then up to the 2nd floor...who would want that?

no one....Perfect spot for a Oatey Surevent.....now im probably going to have to let her know she has to get a drain cleaning specialist to come and snake out all her drains and vents.


when i find out ill let everyone know what this problem was.

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 Re: oatey sure vent problem
Author: redwood (CT)

The problem was that the "plumber" eliminated the through the roof vent and installed an AAV!:S



Edited 1 times.

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 Re: oatey sure vent problem
Author: Crash

That is a long run for a KS drain...no wonder it is plugging up!!!

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 Re: oatey sure vent problem
Author: redwood (CT)

15' I would consider that a short run...
40'+ I would consider a long run...

Now the longest I have seen, I still have a vivid picture in my mind...
A 70' 1 1/2" horiz. run to the stack with a disposer and only the kitchen sink on the line!
Just the kind of thing you want to see when you are going home late from your last call...
Much later than you wanted to be out anyhow...

And the dispatcher begs you to pick up just one more call...

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 Re: oatey sure vent problem
Author: LemonPlumber (FL)

Plumberdan.having an aav insures that drains will always not have vent problems???Do you have vents that never get blocked?systems that never back up?This was a question for plumbers who understand that the proper use of an adopted plumbing type vent could become compromised.Can you add too knowledge base here or just miss understand what the used products failures might be?Good Luck.I use them.They are devises to protect one fixture trap from Being siphoned dry.Vacuum relief if you must.You will probably install your first ten wrong .Just because you don't think it works.

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 Re: oatey sure vent problem
Author: redwood (CT)

In all the repair work I have done over the years I can count the number of clogged vents I have seen on less than 1 hand! I cannot say the same thing about failed AAV's! BTW a large portion of those clogged vents were from roofers throwing roofing material and liquid lunch cans down the vent!

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 Re: oatey sure vent problem
Author: PlumberManDan (IA)

Lemon,
Having an AAV means that you will ALWAYS have problems in the future. I can count the number of "Clogged Vents" one one hand and have fingers left over, Vents if properly sized and installed correctly RARELY get clogged. A DWV system will become clogged at some point in it's life,Rarely is it due to a vent.
AAV's are mechanical substitutes for atmospheric venting. Many are installed so that when they DO FAIL changing them out is shall we say a REAL PIA. ANYTHING mechanical will eventually fail. One of the reasons that AAV's were approved under any code is simply that the public wanted OPEN airy homes with no walls in the way, Lazy plumbers thought HMM, this could be good, less pipe, less fittings, less work, SAME $$$$, sounds good to me......
I have been FORCED to install this garbage long ago when I worked for others, Even in the cases where an atmospheric vent was easily attainable. AAV's are for plumbers that either can not or do not want to install a properly vented through the roof system.
Very recently I encountered a kitchen drain UNVENTED, city inspectors said it needed to be properly vented it was a flat roof, and the rest of the system was designed correctly for it's time period, I used the Rigid camera drilled 4 1" holes in an spots that could not be seen. I was able to remove paneling open the wall and properly vent this sink without using the EASY way out a JUNK AAV. It took 1.75 hour to remove the wall covering and open the walls and run a properly sized vent and to tie into the existing stack 14" before it exited the roof.

Lemon wrote...
I use them.They are devises to protect one fixture trap from Being siphoned dry.Vacuum relief if you must.You will probably install your first ten wrong .Just because you don't think it works.

First, HOW CAN YOU INSTALL IT IMPROPERLY,unless you install it pointing DOWN and not within the length of the waste arm?

Unfortunately, I have BEEN FORCED to install TOO MANY of these DEVICES to make it appear that you will not have a problem, When I worked for others.
Usually, there is NO reason that an AAV needs to be used, as opposed to a traditional venting systems, If the GC needs to make some changes it can usually be accomplished, On remodels closets and corners work wonders when it comes to running a REAL vent not a pseudo one.
AAV's work for a time, a VERY nice handyman way of getting in and out of a job with the least $$ and or thought.
BTW, I have only seen 2 cases where an AAV would be the only way a fixture could be vented without MAJOR reconstruction.

PlumbCat TM 2003


Plumbermandan



Edited 4 times.

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 Re: oatey sure vent problem
Author: LemonPlumber (FL)

Beach side vents can howl like the wind if they go negative.Good Luck.Yea maybe a city problem exists.

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 Re: oatey sure vent problem
Author: PlumberManDan (IA)

BEACH SIDE VENTS IF properly INSTALLED, will have very minimal neg pressure except during a weather event that makes the news.
Why would you place a vent on the NORMALLY negative pressure side of the structure? Even if you can see it from the street, if it has to be that way then SO BE IT, Just one of the "Perks" of a beach side home.
"Trade Winds" whether it be onshore or offshore a Real Plumber would be able to install a naturally aspirated system that would have minimal problems without having to succumb to the AAV route.

PlumbCat TM 2003


Plumbermandan

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 Re: oatey sure vent problem
Author: LemonPlumber (FL)

PlumberDan,Did not mean to say a vent through the roof would not be a better option .You did say that the presence of this aav is ,or you made it sound as though, /you thought it should be contributed to\ it.When from the sound of the description of the problem ,it was the vent opening and closing rapidly which should have pointed to other causes inside the dwv. Good Luck.You only install devises in the system which are not mechanical?So no,hammer arrestors thermal expansion tanks,t and p valves ,pressure balancers,Thermal control devises.A hammer arrestor is a great thing to protect a out the door plumber.

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