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Author:
Don411 (IN)
Hi Guys, First off thanks for all the great advice, you guys are great!
I finished (I think) the DWV job and have some photos of the final. In the end I opted not to add the cleanout in the vent above the double sinks....there were double sinks in this bath (in a different spot) for 35 years and lack of a cleanout was never an issue, unless the PVC piping is more prone to clogging that the copper was.
Here is the final layout:
That 1 1/2" vent running horizontally ties into the 3" soil stack that goes through the roof.
The tub is now installed! That DWV running horizonally just to the right of the tub is for the master bath sink on the other side of the wall. Each fixture has its own vent, but the double sinks and bath in this room and the single sink in the master bath all share a single 1 1/2" vent that ties into the 3" soil stack.
I did add the nailing plates as was suggested here, you just can't see them because I wound up firring out that whole wall. the room measured exactly 60 3/4" wide, so I firred out that wall to make it 60" for a nice fit with the tub.
I also added some additional blocking to stiffen up the wall where that stud stops right above the drain for the master bath sink.
Here's the view from below:
I changed out the tee I had installed for the master bath sink to a wye with a street 45.
The drain ran at an angle from the main waste to the sink drain, and extending caused it to veer off course, so I had to use a pair of 22's to offset the run and line it up with the tub drain.
That tee just after the tub trap is the tie in to the vent. The run does have the required 1/4" per 1' slope, it's just hard to tell from the angle of the photo. The angles of the pipes are deceiving unless you're right up next to them. I also added another 2x8 floor joist right behind the opening for the tub drain, since I had to notch the one that was there.
With the exception of the cleanout for the sinks, I should be good to go! I just filled the tub and drained it out, and no leaks! Couldn't have done it without you guys!
Don
Edited 2 times.
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Author:
bb13 (Non-US)
it all looks pretty good i especially like how you included the beer bottle in the photo. beer is a need for any home improvement project. The only concern i have is the double tee fitting for the double sinks it may be all right in your area but you can't use them in ontario it needs to be a double wye
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Author:
North Carolina Plumber (NC)
A double wye would not pass any inspection here. It would create a s-trap for both sinks . More likely to cause siponing. I see that it would be difficult to add a cleanout in the vertical pipe now, since it has a pipe above and 1 below that are running thru the studs. Might not never need it, just that it would be handy if ever needed and the inspector requires it.
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Author:
e-plumber (NY)
The tee-wyes laying flat here are not up to code as you already know and it's still not too late to add a clean-out fitting above the double lav cross fitting and stub it into the cabinet, whoever comes to snake a clogged drain line down the road will appreciate it.
The rest of your work looks pretty good
e-plumber
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"The society which scorns excellence in Plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an
exalted activity will have neither good Plumbing nor good philosophy: neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water." -
John William Gardner 10/8/1912 - 2/16/2002
Repair your leaking Plumbing fixtures ASAP [www.theplumber.com]
This slow drip will waste 7+ gallons of water per day.
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Author:
dlh (TX)
still have a san tee on its back by the tub trap
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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"
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Author:
packy (MA)
it looks fine to me. just a little note. i would have run the tub drain straight to the trap. i would have rolled the tub vent "TY" at a 45, put a short piece of pipe and a 45 fitting to bring the pipe back to vertical and up thru the wall. yours is not wrong, my way would be cheaper. using two 22's as opposed to one 45.
i'm not a fan of those traps with the union nut in the middle. just another potential leak in the future. plus, once again, they cost more than a regular trap with no plug in the bottom.
so, i give you a 9.85 out of a 10. nice job..
protect that tub better. they chip easily.
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Author:
packy (MA)
>still have a san tee on its back by the tub trap<
that's OK around here. they would bust us if it was a drain but not for a vent.
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Author:
Don411 (IN)
Thanks guys! e-plumber, I'm confused....I replaced the tee with a wye and it's still not code? How are you supposed to do it? the other tee on its back by the tub trap is for the vent.
Packy, thanks for the tip, that sums up the difference between a professional plumber and am amateur like me! I would have liked to replace that section of 3" copper that these tie into with PVC and added another inlet so I wouldn't have to piggyback the tub and sink, but that would take the tub and toilet in the master offline while under construction...so, my routing and such is less than ideal since I was trying to keep the master bath functional while working on this one.
If I could afford it, I would have hired a plumber for this job and gone away for the weekend while he worked on this....but with 2 kids in college I'm lucky to afford the pipe....
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Author:
e-plumber (NY)
The tee on its back for the tub trap is okay as it takes off on greater than a 45 degree angle. I was referring to the 3" copper tees, an inspector may want them changed to wyes or combination fittings.
e-plumber
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"The society which scorns excellence in Plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an
exalted activity will have neither good Plumbing nor good philosophy: neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water." -
John William Gardner 10/8/1912 - 2/16/2002
Repair your leaking Plumbing fixtures ASAP [www.theplumber.com]
This slow drip will waste 7+ gallons of water per day.
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Author:
waukeshaplumbing (WI)
everything looks good to me accept the cleanout missing on the double t..why not use a double y instead? it would have been legal then without the cleanout.
i would have ran the tub drain straight instead of 22 degree angles..over all much better than i see from homeowners...next time find clear primer/glue...then it will look even better
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Author:
e-plumber (NY)
"why not use a double y instead?"
Because it's not permitted by code in that situation, although it does make snaking and clearing a clogged drain line easier.
e-plumber
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"The society which scorns excellence in Plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an
exalted activity will have neither good Plumbing nor good philosophy: neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water." -
John William Gardner 10/8/1912 - 2/16/2002
Repair your leaking Plumbing fixtures ASAP [www.theplumber.com]
This slow drip will waste 7+ gallons of water per day.
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Author:
Don411 (IN)
Thanks for clarifying, the tees in the 3" line are the original ones put in when the house was built, I didn't add them. Doesn't code allow for grandfathering for old work, or once you open it up you must bring it 100% up to code? Was that setup up to code in 1973? If not, shouldn't have passed....
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Author:
e-plumber (NY)
No, it wasn't code in '73 but who knows what took place during the inspection...it may have even been self-certified, (by the Plumber who pulled the original permit), which is somewhat common around here. If an inspector walked into that job or any job that he notices a violation, he has the authority to have things brought up to code, but in your case, he would have to be having a horrible day if he actually made you change it.
e-plumber
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"The society which scorns excellence in Plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an
exalted activity will have neither good Plumbing nor good philosophy: neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water." -
John William Gardner 10/8/1912 - 2/16/2002
Repair your leaking Plumbing fixtures ASAP [www.theplumber.com]
This slow drip will waste 7+ gallons of water per day.
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Author:
Don411 (IN)
Thanks again, I'm not planning on having this inspected, but want to be sure it's safe and not a health hazard.
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Author:
Mr Boffo (--)
How do we sign the card?
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Author:
xlr8danno (MN)
Clear primer for MN is not legal. I am not sure for WI.But here it has to be a a primer constrasting in color to the pipe.
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Author:
hi (TX)
Since you have the pipes exposed consider a return line for a hot water recirc pump from the line most distant from heater. If you have to wait a while for hot water this is a nice addition.
[www.askthebuilder.com]
here are a few how to articles. Personally I prefer a Laing or Grundfos with an integral timer to a thermal siphon setup. Saves more energy.
Consider insulating the pipes.
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Author:
redwood (CT)
Nice job! Just add the cleanout for the sinks.
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Author:
bb13 (Non-US)
in ontario we would have to use a double wye with fitting 45's. using the double tee can allow water to flow from one sink to the other. it is interesting on this site to see how different areas have different code requirements. that setup for double sinks would not pass.
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Author:
e-plumber (NY)
The problem with a double wye and street 45' is that it brings the trap weir too high and technically creates a partial s-trap. The problem with cross sanitary tees is servicing, (snaking and cleaning) the drain from either side, the cable may jump across, but a clean-out fitting above the cross would solve that problem. They make an approved double fixture fitting but it may not be available everywhere.
e-plumber
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The society which scorns excellence in Plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an
exalted activity will have neither good Plumbing nor good philosophy: neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water." -
John William Gardner 10/8/1912 - 2/16/2002
Repair your leaking Plumbing fixtures ASAP [www.theplumber.com]
This slow drip will waste 7+ gallons of water per day.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
You may not need the cleanout for the double sinks because of the short drop into the main line, but if those two elbows ever cause a problem you will regret not having it.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
A double tee/sanitary cross OR a double "Y", are both verbotten here. It has to be a back to back fixture fitting.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
It depends on your local code. Usually the standard is that if more than a certain percentage is changed or added, it all has to be upgraded.
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Author:
birddoggiest (ID)
Nice clean work. Do they make a Fig. 5 fitting in plastic?
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Author:
CraigV (PA)
Hey Don411, what did you wind up doing to level the tub??
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Author:
hj (AZ)
We use them almost daily.
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Author:
Don411 (IN)
Craig, take a look at this photo, I zoomed it in a bit and you can see the front edge of the tub.
The way this tub installs it is only supported by the 2x4 screwed to the studs along the back and by the apron on the front, there are no feet or other supports. First I shimmed it level, then I removed the shim combinations and measured their thickess. What I found was that I was 1/2" out almost the full length of the tub, except at the very ends. About 2" from each wall the gap closed to about 1/4". I ripped a 3" wide section of 1/2" plywood, slathered the bottom of it with Liquid nails, then lifted the tub and slid it under the apron. I used plastic shims at the ends to provide a tight fit, and I also used Liquid Nails on those before I slid them under the tub. Glue is on the floor side so these shims are now glued to the subfloor.
My main concern was that the apron is only 1/2" or so wide at the bottom, and I didn't want whatever support I used to be able to work its way out over time, so the glue is doing the trick.
As an aside, look at the photo again....see the reading glasses laying on the framing? I finished the drywall and first coat of spackle yesterday and can't find those glasses anywhere....
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Author:
redwood (CT)
In the case of missing items... I have found they are always where you left them last, unless someone else moved them...
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Since 1995 (3 years before Google started) PlumbingSupply.com has been THE best plumbing supplier on the web. Please visit our sponsor [www.PlumbingSupply.com]
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Author:
e-plumber (NY)
...Good job - (using Plumbers putty!)
e-plumber
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The society which scorns excellence in Plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an
exalted activity will have neither good Plumbing nor good philosophy: neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water." -
John William Gardner 10/8/1912 - 2/16/2002
Repair your leaking Plumbing fixtures ASAP [www.theplumber.com]
This slow drip will waste 7+ gallons of water per day.
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Author:
Don411 (IN)
Yes, plumber's putty for the tub drain! What I was referring to about the glasses is that I'm betting that they are still sitting in the same place....behind the Hardibacker cement board I installed!!
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Author:
CraigV (PA)
Don...I was going to throw in a smarta$$ comment in my post above about hopefully not leaving the glass...or the beer, in the wall!!
At least you know where to look. It would be worse if you had no pics. Job's not a week old, already patching....
I'm glad you found a (much) easier solution to the shimming. That should work just fine. What's the plan for finish flooring?
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Author:
Don411 (IN)
Craig, no, I got the beer bottle, screwdriver and roll of teflon tape...but no sign of the glasses. Fortunately they were drug store cheap-o's, so NO patching on this job...if they're in the wall, they're staying in the wall!!
For the floor, I use cement board over the subfloor attached every 8" with the special cement board screws, and set in thinset mortar applied with a 1/4" notched trowel. I tape the cement board seams with fiberglas tape and spackle the seams with a coat of thinset. I'll finish the seams on the cement board installed on the tub walls at the same time. Then it's tile on the tub walls and tile on the floor.
I used 1/2" cement board on the tub walls, and I'll use either 1/4" or 1/2" on the floor depending on the thickness of the tile that sweetie selects....
If you're interested, and if OK with the forum guys, I'll post more pics as the job progresses.
Don
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Author:
dlh (TX)
please. this is what we live for and love seeing the finished products
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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"
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Author:
hj (AZ)
From the looks of the picture the tub is being supported by a shim strip at the wall and the rest of the apron is hanging in mid air. If so, then you have all the stress on that one corner, and I would not guarantee that it will not chip someday.
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Author:
Don411 (IN)
It's the other way around...there's a small gap at the corner, the bulk of the apron is sitting on a plywood shim
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Author:
redwood (CT)
Oh yea! Nice job! Should keep the wife happy for years to come...
Whats next on her list?
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Since 1995 (3 years before Google started) PlumbingSupply.com has been THE best plumbing supplier on the web. Please visit our sponsor [www.PlumbingSupply.com]
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Author:
dlh (TX)
nice, thanks for the pics.
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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"
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Author:
Don411 (IN)
Her list is DONE! Actually, I do have some painting to do in the hallway from where I moved the bathroom door, but nothing major. Now, it's on to RV and camping season!!!
I set a new record for myself, 7 weeks start to finish. I was expecting longer considering the amount of plumbing work I had to do. Nothing like replacing baseboard heating in the dead of winter...I had to replace the 6' heating element with a 5' since I moved the door to accomodate the tub on the end of the room. I was going to cut it back and just buy a new enclosure, but for some reason it was $1 cheaper to but the whole assembly with element and enclosure than just the enclosure by itself...go figure...
Total cost was about $4500, about 50% over my original budget of $3000. Big items that we didn't plan on spending so much for were the countertop ($950) and the vanity ($600). We thought they would be less expensive, but the countertop is solid surface with the sinks molded right in so they are seamless and easier to clean.
Tub is an American Standard Americast, porcelain on steel, with some sort of plastic material sprayed on the underside for insulation and sound deadening. Fixtures are Delta, toilet is a fairly plain Kohler.
Sorry I don't have any pics of before the demo work, but the tubm, toilet, and sink were bright 70's yellow! Layout is much improved with the tub at the end of the room vs. where it was longways next to the toilet.
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Author:
dlh (TX)
most remodel budgets are 20%-50% under actual costs
we get closer but we deal with the costs of things to do our part all day every day
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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"
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Author:
redwood (CT)
No need to show us the before pics! We've all seen enough yellow, green, pink, blue, etc. bathrooms!
The colors you have selected will be right for eternity!
Or, Close enough!
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Since 1995 (3 years before Google started) PlumbingSupply.com has been THE best plumbing supplier on the web. Please visit our sponsor [www.PlumbingSupply.com]
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