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 Ingenium VS. Class Five Flushing System
Author: mariahzboy (CA)

I have been researching new toilets for about a month now for my upstairs guest bathroom and am going crazy! Kohler has two flushing systems, Ingenium and Class Five, with the Class Five being the newest of the two. From what I've read online, a lot of people complain about the Class Five's bowl wash, saying that it's insufficient. But when I ask salespeople and Kohler's own customer service representatives, they all claim Class Five to be far superior. I wonder though if that is their "guess" because it is a newer flush system. I know the Class Five is a more powerful flush, but I don't plan on flushing rolls of toilet paper down at a time. Any with actual experience of these toilets have any advice for me?

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 Re: Ingenium VS. Class Five Flushing System
Author: scott soundproofwindows (CA)

Keep away from Kohler toilets. To much trouble and they discontinue and/or change repair parts. TOTO is a far supperior toilet, I have installed them for years and have only had to repaird a few, parts easy to get and repair. never clogs. I have had to repaired as many Kohlers as I have installed.

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 Re: Ingenium VS. Class Five Flushing System
Author: jimmy-o (CA)

Ingenium was a buzzword for a "regular" low flush toilet. Supposedly it combined rim jet and siphon jet.

There seem to be complaints across the board about bowl wash with the large trapway/flushvalve which Kohler calls class 5. Some are better than others. Lets wait for some folks with more specific info on your models.



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 Re: Ingenium VS. Class Five Flushing System
Author: CD1114

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 Re: Ingenium VS. Class Five Flushing System
Author: jerco (MD)

Hey CD, straight up question. Does American Standard pay you?

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 Re: Ingenium VS. Class Five Flushing System
Author: CD1114

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 Re: Ingenium VS. Class Five Flushing System
Author: jerco (MD)

No thanks, I'm not the least bit suspicious of the Toto folks because they almost always recommend other brands as well, but simply state their personal preference for the Toto. I also see them post on MANY other subjects as well. You sound like a salesman for the AS Cadet 3 and rarely, if ever, comment on anything else.

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 Re: Ingenium VS. Class Five Flushing System
Author: plumber42 (NC)

I love the cadet 3 as well. I use toto drake alot as well as the kohler cimmaron. However, whether cd id a rep or not for about $150.00 the cadet 3 is a better value in my book. But i use almost no other american standard products.

Patrick
North Carolina

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 Re: Ingenium VS. Class Five Flushing System
Author: sandbagger (AZ)

sorry, Scott, gonna have to take exception to your high praise for Toto. Installed a Drake 2 yrs ago after considerable research. Very happy at first but it quickly formed a stain at the waterline. This was supposed to have the Sanagloss and everybody - including Toto - said it shouldn't happen. But it did. But that's not the reason I won't buy another Toto - their customer "service" was just awful. Took about 3 months just to get someone to return our calls, and we never got any kind of answer. The Sanagloss does not stay as clean as "normal" finishes we've had. And it's not just me. The distributor we purchased from has now dropped Toto because of problems with both deliveries and quality. :X

We have now switched to Kohler and recently installed a Cimarron (class Five flush). We've already tested their customer service. After we installed the tank it started a slow leak into the bowl and would periodically fill a little. Called Kohler, got a person in a few minutes, and a few days later a new gasket arrived. Good news is the "leak" stopped on its own. Apparently the crud (probably from new plumbing) that caused the leak washed away and everything was fine.

we'll be buying Kohler from now on. (tu)

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 Re: Ingenium VS. Class Five Flushing System
Author: PlumberManDan (IA)

Installed a Cadet 3 today, ripped off 30' of TP put it in the bowl and this toilet took it in ONE GULP, the bowl wash is not spectacular, However, if it leaves the customer happy and free of late nite service calls then ALL IS GOOD.

PlumbCat TM 2003


Plumbermandan

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 Re: Ingenium VS. Class Five Flushing System
Author: redwood (CT)

My thoughts Zackley!:cheers:

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 Re: Ingenium VS. Class Five Flushing System
Author: x77dude (CA)

This is my favorite toilet. The first one I installed was when working for a General Contractor friend. I have since installed a pair for two different clients (elongated bowl) and one for myself (round bowl). I installed another pair just today for another client (elongated bowl). My "downstairs" toilet is an AS Cadet 3 with the mini tank (10' wall clearance issue).

So, "bowl wash" may be minimal. Big deal. It =flushes=. Every time. I replaced a power flush toilet with the Cimarron because the power flush unit sometimes failed to flush at all.

I installed an AS Champion 4 for my mom because the display at Home Depot rated its flushing ability slightly higher than the Cimarron. A few days after I left, the Champion started leaking from the tank where it bolts to the bowl. It cost her $125 to have a plumber come out and replace the washers/gaskets to stop the leak. He told her that I didn't do anything "wrong"-- but that such leaks were "common." Dunno. Kohler's easy-to-use Dry-Lock tank mounting system eliminates through-the-tank mounting bolts, thus eliminating two possible sources of leaks. :eek:

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 Re: Ingenium VS. Class Five Flushing System
Author: kauve (GA)

I have two Kohler 4627 (power flush) toilets that no longer work. Kohler has offered to sell me two replacement toilets for $400. for the two, free shipping. They are replacing with Kohler 3466. Is this a good deal or should I just go out and buy my own somewhere else?

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