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Author:
Anonymous User
Had a job the other day where I had to replace part of a 4" cast iron drain stack. Specifically, I had to remove a hub from a street wye. Usually I drill out the lead/oakum, but the homeowner (a retired union laborer), said, "Why not use your torch and burn the lead out?" Normally, I avoid this technique because of the fumes and fire hazard, but this was in an unfinished basement and I'd never done it before, so I figured, sure, why not try it? Well, I found it to be a waste of time. After heating the lead, I used a 3-lb. hammer on the hub, so that the hub slid down the fitting. The hub was loose, but would not come off because there was a lip (barb) on the end of the street fitting. I drilled out some of the lead, but that was too slow. Finally, I used the 3-lb. hammer to hit the hub until it cracked and only then was I able to remove the hub easily. I'm thinking that from now on, I'll just smash the hub off from the get-go and save a lot of time. My only concern is that I'll crack the street fitting too, creating an even bigger job. Is this a legitimate fear, or can I smash away at the hub until it cracks, without much worry about cracking the street fitting inside?
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Author:
PlumberManDan (IA)
My first choice would be to either cut or snap off the hub. It does take some experience to know if the pipe is "GOOD" or not. De-Leading a joint is VERY possible have done it Quite a few times, As you said it is STINKY and an even bigger hazard than fire would be heating the fitting TOO much and then losing patience and trying to cool it down too fast, If you de-lead a joint then you MUST let it cool naturally, NO wet rag cooling, Don't douse it with cool water, If you do then YOU WILL have a cracked fitting that you will have to replace anyway, That is if you realize that you cracked it while cooling, BEFORE you backfill it.
Hope this helps.
Plumbermandan
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Author:
Anonymous User
Dan, normally I would use snap cutters to cut the pipe just beneath the hub, and then use a 5" x 4" Fernco, but the homeowner wanted to get rid of the hub, too, even though I explained that the hub was not rotted.
Can you elborate more on techniques for removing a hub by melting the lead? The hub I tried it on was vertical, so not much lead spilled out of the joint (I imagine this technique would work better on a horizontal joint). Also, the torch didn't melt the oakum, which holds together the joint as much as the lead does.
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Author:
Masterplumb (NY)
Were you using a big enough torch tip (acetelyne)? I always melt the lead and never have a problem. It sounds like you werent using a big enough tip. Chris
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Author:
Anonymous User
I used an acetylene TurboTorch, with a # 5 tip, I believe.
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Author:
packy (MA)
when you melt the lead in a horizontal joint you have to use an old screwdriver to scoop and throw the lead out. it's tedious and messy. after the lead is out, remove the oakum(it is usually smoldering at this point) and the hub will slip down off the spigot end of the "Y".
if you can get a big sledge hammer on the opposite side of where you are hitting the hub with the 3 pound hammer, it will absorb any horizontal energy and the hub should crack free without any damage to the vertical stack. (notice i said SHOULD)..
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Author:
PlumberManDan (IA)
I Usually use a MAPP torch by Craftsman or Burnzomatic, If I am in a hurry then i will use a large tip LP or act torch. If it is a vertical joint then you will have to help it along, No matter what type of torch you use. I usually use a can of AIR or a large flat blade screwdriver, If it is a horizonal joint then I start at the bottom of the joint, and work my way Up BOTH sides of the joint. Yes, the torch will not destroy the OAKUM in the joint. Once the lead is out of the joint the fitting WILL come out, you will have to move the fitting as you de-lead the joint. You are dealing with hub and spigot fittings.
Plumbermandan
Post Edited
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Plumbermandan
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Author:
Anonymous User
What do you use the canned air for?
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Author:
steve_g (CA)
I like to put a slice in the hub with a grinder and pound a chisel into the slice. That spreads the hub until it cracks and doesn't hurt the fitting.
The barb is referred to as a spigot, as in bell & spigot pipe. It's only on fittings & the end of the pipe, so if you have a short piece of cast iron in a hub it will most likely not have a spigot.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
A vertical joint whenit is heated just melts the lead, you need air, or some other pressure source, to blow the melted lead out of the joint. I used to use an oxy-aceylene cutting torch and use the oxygen lance to blow it out.
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Author:
e-plumber (NY)
I cannot imagine molten lead being forced out of a C.I. hub by the use of compressed air.
I would rather use another (safer) technique to remove the hub.
e-plumber
e-plumber
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exalted activity will have neither good Plumbing nor good philosophy: neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water." -
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This slow drip will waste 7+ gallons of water per day.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
YOu just haven't had to do it yet. Unless there is a reason to save the pipe, or there is no accessibility, I usually remove the remnant from the hub with a hammer and chisel.
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Author:
PlumberManDan (IA)
Canned air is used for GENTLY blowing the lead from the joint, Yes, you will get burned at times, EVEN with welding gloves on, However, it is one of the easiest ways I have found to de-lead a vertical joint.
Plumbermandan
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Author:
Anonymous User
Steve, I like your idea. Many plumbers (at least the well-equipped ones) carry 4" grinders on their trucks. I can't wait to try this technique next time. I'm still not sold on melting the lead out of joints and using compressed air to blow out molten lead. With all due respect to those who suggested that, I'm sure it works well for you, but it sounds like too big of a production and too dangerous. (Yes, this is a dangerous trade, but the less dangerous we can make it, the better.)
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Author:
Dunbar (KY)
I rarely use service weight gaskets for dealing with cast-iron unless I have a close situation where I have no pipe sticking out of a hub of a tee. I think that using mission couplings are the way to go, short of the hassle of removing lead.
I always used a chisel along with heat to help aid the removal of the lead ring that was poured. The smell is horrendous at times.
I use a 4" diamond blade on a angle grinder with the guard removed to cut cast-iron now.
Almost no sparks when cutting, and I keep the sawzall blades where they belong......on the store shelves.
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Author:
PlumberManDan (IA)
MOST of the time you can just use a snapper to remove the CI pipe that you dont need, However You WILL have at some point in time have to de-lead a joint, due to structural inability to do otherwise, Also I never use Fernco couplings, Always use MISSION (No Hub) bands to connect plastic to cast or copper.
Plumbermandan
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Author:
hj (AZ)
That is because you are learning the trade years after pouring and removing lead joints was the norm. We did it hundreds of times every day.
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Author:
Anonymous User
4th yr,
Removing cast iron in most applications is not a job for the unfamiliar. Best bet is to hang with an old timer that has done this type of thing before. The scenarios are as varied as the structures we work in. You need to concider what is holding up the pipe above your work area.(riser clamps,etc.) That stuff is heavy. I also don't recommend blowing molten lead around with compressed gas of any type. Finally, no-hub bands or mission couplings should only be used on like outside diameter pipe in vertical applications. Pvc to schedule 40 steel... same diameters. Cast iron( service weight or no hub) has different outside diameters than pvc and should have a fernco coupling, step bushing and sheer band to align the different materiels. Best of luck.
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Author:
Anonymous User
I think 4th year has been doing real good in some challenging situations. He is into problem solving and has a good mechanical ability.
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Author:
Anonymous User
Thank you, Lonny.
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