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Author:
Anonymous User
About one year after moving in to our brand new house, we started to develop pinhole leaks in the cold water copper supply pipes. Over a 8-12 month period, we had six leaks. Water checked out as non corrosive by several labs. Had a section of the failed pipe analyzed and it was determined that the holes were caused by "solder flux induced corrosion". Anybody with any experience with this? Is there a solution other than re-plumbing the entire cold water system?
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Author:
packy (MA)
i've never heard of solder flux induced corrosion. who inspected the tubing?
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Author:
Anonymous User
I sent it to the Copper Development Association Inc.
WWW.copper.org
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Author:
jjbex (IL)
I have come across it on a service call once. The plumber used so much flux that it sat in the bottom of the pipe, eating it away. I have seen several presentations from the CDA, and have seen several samples of flux corrosion. The CDA is also a testing agency that can and will testify in court. If they say it's flux corrosion, it's flux corrosion. You might have recourse against the installer for faulty workmanship.
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Author:
HytechPlumber (LA)
And for those excact reasons soldering as plumbers know it is changing. The products or changing as so will the installation methods. It will basicly be the same, "per say" but the skill level may get slightly more tedious. It will happen gradually not over night. GOOD LUCK
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Author:
Anonymous User
are you the olny homeowner with this problem..or did the plumber do olny one house...they tried to blame the flux for about 3,000 houses with pinholes in the copper in my fair city...turned out to be the ph level in the city water...we have all r.o. water...funny it didn't happen to the houses we did that was on well water
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Author:
jjbex (IL)
Water safe flux is mandated under Chicago code. I bet the whole country goes that way before too long.
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Author:
steve_g (CA)
As far as preventing further pinholes, flushing the lines may stop further corrosion. That or, if the piping configuration allows, running hot water through the cold lines for a while.
I have seen pipes flushed but never done it myself. Perhaps another poster can provide further details. The CDA may have information about it as well.
-Steve G
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Author:
hj (AZ)
IN 50+ years of plumbing I have never seen that happen. Flux will either be boiled off during the soldering process or washed out when the system is activated. Unless some of the newer fluxes are very tenacious and active against copper tubing.
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Author:
jimmy-o (CA)
The CDA is the ultimate knowledge source, so I think you need to get further clarifiction from them. Most, if not all fluxes use now or in the recent past have been advertised as non-corrosive. DId your plumber use the wrong kind of flux? You need to know.
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Author:
jimmy-o (CA)
BTW, are all your leaks occurring at joints?
Hard to imaginge there is enough residual flux just wandering around your pipes to cause random leaks?
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Author:
ed.yee (CA)
Don't know if it will help you now but when I repiped my house I flushed my cold water lines with hot water to help wash out any residual flux in the system.
Good luck!
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Author:
Anonymous User
Why ed, like HJ said... never seen it happen.
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Author:
jjbex (IL)
Non-corrosive flux is a misnomer. Only "water safe" is water soluble. Usually, the hot water washes out the flux in the hot side. Cold water won't wash out flux. I have seen hack plumbers stick the end of the pipe into the flux jar, instead of heating the flux to a workable consistancy. That's gonna cause problems! The CDA website is pretty informative, and they put on good seminars.
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Author:
Gary Slusser
I've seen them stick the fitting in the flux too. I've seen flux run down the tubing 3' from fittings. Excess flux is one of the causes of pinholes in copper tubing.
You guys that haven't seen or heard of this pinhole stuff doesn't make it not so. How about doing some reading on the subject.
Gary
Quality Water Associates
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Author:
Anonymous User
Flux residue on the outside of the pipe eats into the fitting connection. I repipe a copper house about every two years because the flux was not washed or wiped off. My dad used to make me wash my fittings with soap and water even in the crawl space. I thought it was stupid but our repipes from the 70's look like new today. If caught early enough you can wire brush and wash the fittings off before they get deep green. LonnythePlumber
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Author:
Anonymous User
In my eye's the main cause of pinholes (pitting) is electrolysis along with thin wall (type m ) tubing, going to look at a job on saturday, will bring back pic's.
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Author:
Anonymous User
The leaks have all been more than six inches up to a couple of feet from any fittings, and the corrosion is from the inside out.
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Author:
Anonymous User
Here is a link to an article about copper pipe and corrosion.
www.wssc.dst.md.us/service/copperpipe.html
Tells me everything except how to deal with it.
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Author:
Gary Slusser
Dissimilar metals corrosion is one cause of pinhole leaks in copper tubing but there are many others. But are you saying corrosion is okay as long as the tubing wall is thick enough to not cause leakage until more time passes? lol
Copper is limited in potable water everywhere for very solid and serious health reasons and there is no time involved.
Gary
Quality Water Associates
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Author:
Gary Slusser
Great article and pictures.
I've seen it before but hadn't saved it. Now there should be no more of the "I've never seen the problem" or disagreements that the problem doesn't exist.
Gary
Quality Water Associates
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Author:
Anonymous User
Gary, we all know the problems exist, I just don't fall for the "it's the flux" line. As you stated there are many factors and flux just may play a small part but if it were the main factor copper would be failing everywhere. I deal with this problem day in and out many times finding two homes side by side build the same month by the same builder 40 or 50 years ago, one having a pitting problem and the other's fine. I handle 100+ unit apartment buildings with 50 year old copper and not a sign of pitting, the building next door built the same year all the risers are shot. I also fine there to be an even amount of corrosion on hot and cold lines so there go's the "hot water flushing action" for the hot water lines theory. Just my 2 cents. MP
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Author:
Anonymous User
So what's your guess? I'm open to any ideas.
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Author:
jjbex (IL)
On the hot side it's probably erosion/corrosion from unreamed copper. Just because it's the same builder, doesn't mean it's the same plumber. I ream and mechanically clean the pipe and fittings. Doing that, I just put a thin film of flux on. Other guys don't clean and load the flux on, thinking the flux alone is all they need. So, unless every plumber does it the same, it makes no difference if a contractor does two houses or buildings and one has problems and the other doesn't.
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Author:
redwood (CT)
The web article Tony cites tells everything there is to know about copper pipe corrosion. It cites all the possible causes and what should be done to eliminate them. When I go to a house that has had several leaks in copper I give the homeowner a copy of that article. the causes of copper pipe failure can be flux induced corrosion, caused by water conditions, even electrical problems in the house can cause corrosion. It will take time, testing and trouble shooting to return the plumbing to the trouble free thing it should be.
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